Nearfields upright or on sides and why?

[zip]

Somewhat of a silly post because it's preference but WTF...

Do you keep your nearfields upright or on the sides?

Personally I've moved mine to the sides for two reasons...

1) I feel I get a better top / bottom balance with the tweeters and woofers on the same plane - tweeters to the outside of course.

2) Not an ideal set-up. Because I've got two young boys who like to poke their fingers into things (recipe for disaster with no grilles) I was forced to put the monitors on a shelf - slighly above head level. When I mix I have to put something on my chair to raise my head up on the same plane but it sure the hell beats woofers with little holes in them.

What about you?

[Dolemite]

Upright is better...I'll see if I can dig up a diagram that explains why.

[ausrock]

Zip,

Tannoy's website has a full explanation of the why's and wherefores of monitor placement. Sorry I don't have a link to put here for it.

[Dolemite]

Yeah, that's where I saw that. I think it was in the .pdf Proto-J manual.

[zip]

I'll take a look. I'm not sure about "better" though. (maybe technically) I've seen one of Glen Ballards' (not personally) set-ups' with monitors on the side.

He's no slouch. I'll read and find out why...

zip >>

[zip]

Well...

according to Tannoy you are correct. SHIT!! Now I need to buy a taller chair!

Anyone else hear this?

[drstawl]

It really depends on what Nearfields you're talking about.

Event 20/20 monitors sound better on their sides (according to the manufacturer) because of the wider stereo field.

Other manufacturers specify different placement techniques.

[ausrock]

Doc,
I'm not tryin' to be a smart-arse, but I wonder if "sounding better", as in the 20/20's case actually equates to sounding correct for mixing.

[drstawl]

It does for me. What else do I need to know?

[GT]

Hey,

Here's something I know!!

The best you can do with a woofer, tweeter array, is what's known as line source.

To acheive this the speaker has to be vertical. Better dispersion, and blending of the woofer and tweeter.

The ideal speaker is what's known as single point source, this is where the full frequency would come from a single point. Less phase problems, and more coherent sound.

Go vertical with your speakers, it you want to get the best sound out of them.

GT

[Downside Studio]

When I mix I have to put something on my chair to raise my head up on the same plane but it sure the hell beats woofers with little holes in them.

Hahahaha, gotta love homerecording. Thats what those recordingbooks are for, raising your butt!

[Downside Studio]

My studiopartner has a little daughter of 15 months. She's walking daily around in the studio, and whenever she hears music she starts dancing. Our clients are laughing their behinds off.

Now I once got her full attention by remotely opening cd-trays and DAT-trays. Also ejecting multitrack tapes got her full attention. I didn't realise little kiddies learn fast. Out of the 19.000 knobs and switches in the studio she knows exactly which will totaly screw up the session. Sometimes random tracks go into record mode instead of playback (aaaarrrrggghhhh) after she walks by. She also very fascinated by the lights, and offcourse the tapes that are recording have their meters going up and down, so she knows which are recording and which are idle. Idle seems not to be interesting. She also seems to prefer red lights instead of green.

I think in a year or 2 she will lead her first recording session independtly.

Oh yeah, they got her such a 'my first little sony' cassetterecorder with mic. Now whenever she sees somebody recording vocals she starts to 'record along' with her own mic.

Just thought I share this information.

[zip]

I'll check the Event site for a reco...

Good story Downside! My two boys (6 and 3) KNOW not to touch anything! The only problem I have is stopping them from wrestling and fighting...which is where the real concern is!

I already have all my outboard stuff... MOTU, preamps, compressor in a roto rack - which I keep closed when not in use.

One can't protect a speaker - which is why they are "somewhat safely" on a shelf.

When they are a little more responsible I've get them involved but for now they usually say..."Daddy - are you going to do your music now?" and stand behind me. Funny thing is I'm a vocalist and I'm constantly singing...now they both run around the house singing Disney soundtracks!!

Wala! Instant backup singers for the future. Now I just need to buy them that drumset!

zip >>

[zip]

Originally posted by drstawl
It really depends on what Nearfields you're talking about.

Event 20/20 monitors sound better on their sides (according to the manufacturer) because of the wider stereo field.

Other manufacturers specify different placement techniques.

drstawl...

How did you find this information? I didn't find it on the website.

Thanks,

zip >>

[drstawl]

It was mentioned in their installation pamphlet when I bought them.

And cats can also be a "back-seat driver" in the studio, so I try to keep them away from power strips. Now a dangling power strip would be too great an attraction for them to play with it- that won't work. Gotta turn off the keyboard input while recording a sequence. They love to get in their two cents on the performance.

[zip]

"They love to get in their two cents on the performance."

Doesn't everyone?? LOL

I also found the info in the install manual. With the PS5's it states there is no performance difference. So back on the sides they go.

It really seems to be design driven...

thanks!

zip >>

[zip]

PS5's give a better image on thier sides...

Results rule...

[GT]

Zip,

No offence, but woofer, tweeter are meant to play vertically, like I said in line source, this will give you your tightest phase responce, and better dispersion.

What you are listening to with speakers on there sides may be different, or enhanced, but most certainly less accurate. Don't be fooled.

Mark my words you will eventually come to you scenses, speakers have a way of fooling your on these matters.

I've been there.

But it is fun to experiment.

GT

[zip]

I respect your position... but I know this...

Playing the same reference CD both ways I hear MORE horizontally. I'm not talking minor differences....I'm talking they panned that like THAT??!!??

I'm not doing it because it sounds better. I'm doing it because I can hear more. If you can hear more I don't understand how that can be bad in any way. Especially when the manufacturer states there is no performance difference.

I will need to get some rubber sheeting material to get them off the shelf however...it is known that lower frequencies can be absorbed by consoles...shelves etc...

Time will tell I guess.

zip >>

[atomictoyz]

I can't find the isue right off hand, but there was a couple of issues where 2 of the top acousticians were commenting on each others train of thought of room dimensions and treatment placement but also monitor placement. One said on the sides where the cones centerlines were on the same horizontal plane. The other said vertical, both folks are highly educated and well respected people in the field of acoustics. Why the out of phase views? One thing I always ask is why are all the labels on every monitor positioned such that vertical makes it readable? The Alesis' all the way into the Questeds mega buck speakers are positioned vertical. Its obvious that the brochures and technical pictures are showing them vertical because thats how they were designed to function the best from an analytical persepctive. If they are too tall then angle them down using the string to nose fit check. GT said experimentation is fun, yup it is, and to each his own, if the 2 top acousticians are still arguing Im not sure we can make much headway. I think with the NS-10s it doesnt matter :0)...just kidding!

Peace,
Dennis

[ausrock]

I think (notice I said "think") from memory that Tannoy's "Dual Concentric" range are able to be laid on their side, as they don't have this woofer and tweeter separation issue.

[zip]

...but the tweeters are gunna rip your head off anyway...

I also read in the Mixing Engineers Handbook that MANY top engineers prefer the horizontal position for monitoring...

Quote...

"Most mixers prefer that the tweeters of a 2 or 3 way system be mounted on the outside, thereby widening the stereo field. Occassionally, tweeters to the inside works, but this usually results in smearing of the stereo image. Experiment with both, however, because you never know."

Either way...you must de-couple them to avoid the comb filter effect.

Ahhhhhh....the dangers of reading.... LOL

Maybe the manufacturers picture - mount the logos on vertical speakers because that's the way stereo speakers are pictured and that's what the public is used to seeing.

Donno...

[atomictoyz]

Ive seen studios with them both ways...ns-10s on the sides and krks vertical, in the same studio....I think I will angle mine on one side, then vertical on the other!

Peace,
Dennis

[GT]

If you are putting the speaker horizontally, because the tweeter is to high, you would be better off lowering the speaker, and keeping it vertical.

Tannoy has the right idea with dual concentric, this is the ideal single point source speaker that I have been trying to convince you egg heads is the way to go. These speakers are very expensive, for that reason. Kef used to use this design, don't know if they still do. This is an inherently better design. With this type of speaker you can put it on it's side, or even upside down, it won't matter.

Luckily this design can be had in just about any good cheap stereo at Target, Kmart etc. You just have to find one that sounds right.

Bottom line: full range speakers are inherently better than two way speakers, so why bother with two way speakers. This is what the speaker manufacturers don't want you to know.

The truth will set you free. Go forth and spread the word!!

GT

[zip]

"If you are putting the speaker horizontally, because the tweeter is to high, you would be better off lowering the speaker, and keeping it vertical. "

Well GT...sounds like you know more than other professionals in the field....

And you must know more than Event which claims a horizontal improvement in the 20/20's and no difference in the PS series...

So where is the data to back up your claim? Not trying to be a dick but if PROS argue over it - and manufacturers make their claims I will need DATA to just agree with you.

SHOW ME.

I'll wait.

peace man! zip >>