microphone placement

[o-ron]

I have been asked to record my brother who is a violinist and his accompanist on piano. I am almost certain it will be recorded in an open environment (ie hall or church).
I have done recordings like this in the past and have experimented with different micing techniques, the best sound of which I got from just having 2 good condesner mics set up in a stereo "X" about 3 feet away from the violinist who is then standing in front of (or in the "crook" of) the piano. This gave a very nice, natural sound but it was a bit dead and lacking as far as stereo width and acoustic depth goes (the piano was too much in the "background" and both instruments were centered on the stage, lessening the sense of stereo image).

I'm looking for recommendations on how to mic this and how the two performers should be placed on stage for recording.

I'll probably be using 2 AKG C1000s condensor mics plus the option of a possible 1 more mic of another model (perhaps a 3000? - if I can afford it)

THANKS!!

[hawkins]

c 1000s for violinist in xy and look at geting a pzm mic for the piano

[o-ron]

pzm - is that the kind that are a plate that you rest on/near the soundboard?

[hokypokynose]

Originally posted by o-ron
pzm - is that the kind that are a plate that you rest on/near the soundboard?

I have a PZM on a "plate" and I'm wondering, what's the kind that you place on or near the soundboard and why would you do that?

[hawkins]

a pzm (pressure zone mic) uses the surface its placed on as a diaphram so you tape it to the underside of the piano lid keeping the lid open.

ps o-ron what sound board are you talking about

[petimar]

I have found the best recording of violin/fiddle are ribbon mics. I personnally have a Royer R121 and a Beyer M160, and have used RCA 44, 77, and the Coles 4038 in studios. All are great. I found on my fiddle it works best with the mic over the end of the headstock at the height of my forehead, pointed right at my chin. I've also used that combination with another ribbon about 1foot away, on axis to the f holes.

Every fiddle/violin and player are so different, you really have to try a lot of mics and places. I have also used C1000 (decent) and KM184 (very nice). On stage I use the C1000.

[hawkins]

just wandering if you recorded yet and if so how did it go

[o-ron]

heh, nope.
My next recording gig is going to be my brother's choir (he's a choir director for a high school) this spring and then later this summer I'm recording my other brother (who is a professional violinist and violin professor) who wants to record a solo album with a pianist coleague of his.

Heh, for getting recording jobs it sure helps to have musicians in the family! ;-)

Anyway, it will be a while before I do record the violin and piano one, but I'm making sure I have *everything* prepared for it both technical knowledge and equipment wise.

[o-ron]

I was listening to some of my previous recordings and other professional recordings of this type (piano/violin) and was making some observations and was wondering what you all thought:

I think the best format is to have a good acoustically separate stereo recording of the piano with a *wide* stereo presence just *slightly* behind the violin, and the violin miced a bit closer but with a nice wet digital reverb to make it nice and silky sounding. It too would be centered and stereo, but perhaps not quite as wide (stereo wise) as the piano.

Another mix I have used in the past and also heard other places is to have the piano pushed just slightly left in the mix and the solo violing pushed slightly right, thus simulating a similar stage presence. However, I'm not sure I like the solo instrument being off-center.

What are your thoughts on this? Any other ideas for mixing the 2 instruments?

Thanks