sacrificing sound for comfort

[dr.colossus]

so the group wants to lay down a track....you've rehearsed the song a thousand times, then out comes the adat....you want a well separated sound to allow for easy post production, so you tell the drummer to lay down the drum track, and of course the effort is terrible to say the least, even with the guitarist playing through the drummers headphones...why? you have never played the song like this before and are missing vital body language signals from other members of the band, not to mention the "live vibe"..... the headphones are a pain in the arse because you want to hear the natural kit sound, and all these micsa are obtrusive, etc.etc.

you will never lay down a perfect take under these circumstances, so the guitarist plugs intop the laney v50 you take off the headphones and create a perfect take...... on playback there is enough guitar bleeding through the drum mics to supply the red cross for the next twenty years.....

you try mattress upon mattress of seperation and the drummer once again sticks the headphones over his ears and is stuck in this uncomfortable nether world.....good take and little bleed, but still not good enough......

some songs are definatly written for live situations and visual cues for changes, hard hitting accents, and slight tempo variations are of utmost importance a good musician can play the track on his own without worry, but a better musician relies on cues from other band members much like an orchestra has a conductor

you'll never get a good take sitting the drummer/ guitarist/ bassist down on his own and pressing the little red record button, just as you'll never get a great clean separted sound recording the musicians together in their natural environment.....

so i ask... what do you do.....what do you do??

[shackrock]

that was beautiful, because i know exactly what you mean. haha

[Track Rat]

Don't over think the process. A good vibe is WAY more important than recording perfection. Sure in a perfect world there would be no cross talk between tracks but don't let that get in the way of the PERFORMANCE. Besides, a little bleed isn't such a bad thing. Make it work for you.

[Gidge]

let the guitar player go direct while the drummer is recording.....you get all of the body language with no bleed.....a J-Station or even a stomp box (to get close to a tone) will help the feel......

[Scott Tansley]

Just like playing an instrument takes practice, recording an instrument takes practice too. Tell them this. And everyone goes through it at first. Some are quicker to adapt than others.

Quote:
"you will never lay down a perfect take under these circumstances, "

Most other musicians can.

But your right, till then the live approach will have to do.

[dobro]

Yeah, good ideas in this thread, but basically I think Scott nailed it. You have to learn how to work a studio. If the only thing you know how to do is play live to an audience, or play all together at the same time, then the 'okay it's time to break it down into separate tracks and overdub' approach in the studio isn't going to work very well.

Two options: record your band playing together, and deal with the bleed, like Track Rat says. Or, learn how to work the studio - which takes time, practice, experience.

[drstawl]

A take on this I got today recording a garage band in a garage was that the goal should be to just let them play while you record the whole thing. They were trying to be helpful, or feeling selfconscious or both, but I kept getting plenty of direction to cut the Red Light despite the fact that I was paying for the media, and brought enough of it to never have to care. I was packing up and going home way before the media ran out. That was for sure.

The comfort they needed was to hear the mix in the room the same way they hear it when they play while I recorded it.
It almost worked like a real studio in places.

[JuSumPilgrim]

Call a professional drummer. The "live vibe" is overrated.
I have yet to produce something that didnt have intense energy and Ive never done any serious recording by tracking everyone all at once.

Alternatively, break the song up into parts. Let the loud sections bleed and do the quieter sections track by track.

[Shailat]

Gidge has it right.

Record the drums while the bass and guitarist go direct.
No bleed....live feeling....record bass after the drums are sitting well etc.....have the drummer play with phones to get used to the feeling and you have it basicly nailed.







hl

[John Sayers]

Another way is to record the bass and guitars vocals etc to the click and then put the drums on last. He then has something to play to other than a click.

cheers
John

[dr.colossus]

we pulled a take DIing the guitar, in the end we had to because the laney fried.......it was inevitable that a DI was the only way to do it, i just wish it had more of that rehearsal room comfort.....unfortunatly due to a heap of tempo changes a click track wasn't going to do the job......

and guys, go easy i was on drums

and live vibe is not overrated...

in this particualr situation it was problem solved, and every song will require a differnt recording technique...but still the battle cries loom in the far reaches of my brain, performance and vibe, versus clarity and ease of post production

[JuSumPilgrim]

All I meant was its possible to get a "live" vibe by tracking each piece separate. Much of the live sound comes from the mixing, and youll get a much tighter, more intense and energetic sound that way.



peace


Gus

[Gidge]

wtg, doc!

by the way, getting a drummer to play to a click is easier said than done....when youre talking pro studios, no problemo...but some of the guys jerkoffs like me get to play with, forget it...