guitar and bass sounds, mic preamps and other misc. issues

[tim_oreilly]

Hi-

I am recording with a Korg D-16 and am struggling to get a good guitar sound. The ballpark sound I would say I am going for is Angus Young (AC/DC) - the back in black album in particular.

I play an SG through a 5150 head and Mesa Boogie Cabinet, and can get a great sound out of it in the room - the problem is getting it on the figurative tape.

The basic problem is, I always end up with one of two problems:

1. too "washed out"
2. too "AM radio"

When I try to solve problem 1, I end up causing problem 2. Problem 1 seems to be caused by a combination of too much bass, too much gain, not enough mid.

As I solve the washiness, problem, though, the guitar ends up sounding too thin - like AM radio.

I'm now questioning whether I ought to be using a mic preamp. I'm using a Shure SM-57 directly into the Korg which supposedly doesn't require a preamp. But maybe a preamp would fatten up the sound?

Other miscellaneous questions:

1. Would anyone recommend using a condenser mic for a guitar amp?

2. My bassist uses a pick - any advice how to record a bass in a way that isn't so "picky"? Am micing his amp w/ a large diaphragm condenser mic - seems to get a better sound than direct. But maybe direct through a preamp would be better?

3. I have noticed that using an XLR-to 1/4" adapter/transformer, and recording on a non-XLR input on my KORG results in a brighter and/or thinner sound. Why would this be the case? It is my understanding that the specs of the non-XLR inputs are the same other than the fact that they are 1/4"

If anyone would be so kind as to enlighten me, I would really appreciate it! Thank you very much.

Tim

[MISTERQCUE]

Originally posted by tim_oreilly
Hi-

I am recording with a Korg D-16 and am struggling to get a good guitar sound. The ballpark sound I would say I am going for is Angus Young (AC/DC) - the back in black album in particular.

I play an SG through a 5150 head and Mesa Boogie Cabinet, and can get a great sound out of it in the room - the problem is getting it on the figurative tape.

The basic problem is, I always end up with one of two problems:

1. too "washed out"
2. too "AM radio"

When I try to solve problem 1, I end up causing problem 2. Problem 1 seems to be caused by a combination of too much bass, too much gain, not enough mid.

As I solve the washiness, problem, though, the guitar ends up sounding too thin - like AM radio.

I'm now questioning whether I ought to be using a mic preamp. I'm using a Shure SM-57 directly into the Korg which supposedly doesn't require a preamp. But maybe a preamp would fatten up the sound?

Other miscellaneous questions:

1. Would anyone recommend using a condenser mic for a guitar amp?

2. My bassist uses a pick - any advice how to record a bass in a way that isn't so "picky"? Am micing his amp w/ a large diaphragm condenser mic - seems to get a better sound than direct. But maybe direct through a preamp would be better?

3. I have noticed that using an XLR-to 1/4" adapter/transformer, and recording on a non-XLR input on my KORG results in a brighter and/or thinner sound. Why would this be the case? It is my understanding that the specs of the non-XLR inputs are the same other than the fact that they are 1/4"

If anyone would be so kind as to enlighten me, I would really appreciate it! Thank you very much.

Tim

1) Yes. Try a a condenser, I'ev used a RodeNT1, an AKG C1000 and a Marshall 1006 and I've noticed a warmer less mid-rangy sound when using these condensers.

2) I'm a bass-player, and though I NEVER use a pick, I do use the percussive, thumb-slap technique!!! I cut freqs at 75hz, but in your bassist's case it would be wise to boost freqs above 60 hz by 3-4 dbs and basically go to a DI-pre-board to maintain good bottom and clarity of your bassist's pick-style.

3) Your DAW's inputs are balanced hence,TRS/XLR cables which are balanced also are preferably used in connections with your
Korg. I rarely use unbalanced 1/4" cables to balanced in's on my board.

[tim_oreilly]

Thanks Misterqcue

Yesterday I took another crack at recording the guitars - this time I used a condenser (C3000B) in addition to a dynamic mic (SM57). The two of them seem to complement each other quite nicely.

Anyhow, I screwed around with different placement, different amp set-ups etc. I ended up getting a sound that is definitely in the ballpark of what I want when I turned the amp to a very low volume and mic'ed it close with both the 57 and the 3000B. The sound was simultaneously more upfront and warm than I was previously able to get.

Haven't re-recorded bass yet, but thanks for the advice on that one, and thanks for the knowledge on balanced vs. unbalanced.

[Track Rat]

About the XLR transformer. It does change the sound using one especially at higher levels (like from mic'ing an electric guitar). The transformer core gets saturated easily and can all manor of damage (sound wise).

[mwarkentin]

Just wondering why you're using a xlr to 1/4" transformer (for the guitar if I'm not mistaken). If you're recording guitar by itself, plug the mic into an xlr input, and just assign it to a different channel on the mixer..

[tim_oreilly]

Thanks for the additional feedback.

I actually have been using the XLR inputs to do guitars

what happened was this - i was trying out 3 different mics (just to sample what they sounded like). I had an SM57 in the XLR input and an SM58 in the 1/4" input (w/ the transformer) and i was surprised at how different they sounded. I switched them and realized the transformer was changing the sound.

I just posted the question just to find out why this was happening

thanks again

[tim_oreilly]

forgot to mention that i only have 2 xlr in's so using three mics simultaneously is what led to my using the transformer

[rucarlso]

How are you powering the condenser mic? The D16 doesn't have phantom power, does it? Just curious about what might be between the mic and the D16...