First-person point of view songs

[Eric J]

Does anyone have this 'problem' of when writing a song, people naturally assume that it's about you? Especially when it has some romantic/personal connection?

I know often when I listen to music, I often assume that the person is writing about themselves. This doesn't seem to happen so much in other forms of writing - books and the like. I don't naturally assume that Stephen King has really been attacked by a living car, I assume that he's writing a story.

Richard Thompson songs come to mind - in Vincent Black Lightining you assume that he's making up a story about a biker. Or 'I feel so good I'm gonna break somebody's heart tonight' where he's singing from the point of view of an released convict.

I have to outright state which songs are fictional, and which are about my personal life.

And sometimes songs stick in your head that you don't personally agree with. Every girlfriend I've ever had has taken exception when I sing to myself 'Help Me' by Joni Mitchell, when I just love the song!

So why are songs automatically taken to be so personal? Or is just me?

[Henri Devill]

Hey Eric,I think that they all have something to do with you..Your prospective will always color your take on a subject..I always write with my own feelings no matter "who" its about..Its kinda like acting put yourself in the other persons shoes..For me you gotta know what you are writeing about..Everyones different but thats my take...

Don

[George Parler]

Originally posted by Henri Devill
Hey Eric,I think that they all have something to do with you..Your prospective will always color your take on a subject..I always write with my own feelings no matter "who" its about..Its kinda like acting put yourself in the other persons shoes..For me you gotta know what you are writeing about..Everyones different but thats my take...

Don

I agree Don. The songs I write are of things or emotions I've experienced. And even if I write, as through the eyes of someone else, its still me painting that piture. Even when I sing a song someone else wrote, it's a song that stirs an emotion or memory in me. I don't have a stage mask. When I get up there I play and sing from the inside out.

Thats my two coppers.

<><
George

[theron]

A huge part of being a good writter is the ability to express viewpoints and outlooks that are not your own. If you can do this already, great.
A lot of writters have a hard dig at dipping into thier own personnal life and build fantasic bodies of work without going home.
The assumption of the audience and or recipient of the piece cannot be controlled. Furthermore, it should not be taken into concideration from a creative perspective.

Write true and they will come. And if they don't then you at least truely be at one with yourself.

Just my humble take.
Theron.

[Eric J]

The whole issue wasn't a problem or anything.

It was more an interesting comment, that songs seem more personal than other kinds of writing.

Of course, if you're writing a song that is not supposed to be from YOU writing it, one would probably find parts of your own life that do fit in writing a song. And when choosing songs to cover, you choose songs that mean something for you.

But it doesn't always work - the Rod Stewart version of 'I don't want to talk about it' comes to mind - I first heard it by Everything But The Girl, in the mid-to-late 80's. That particular song doesn't make much sense sung by a guy - guys generally don't think and talk like that about their love-y feelings.


Would you feel comfortable singing a song by Charles Manson? His demos were supposed to be okay, they say.

I do get funny looks when singing old gospel tunes to myself sometimes.

[chazba]

One way that a writer can fail when writing in the 3rd person is by inadvertently switching a verb to 1st person. Instead of sticking with "he said" or "she thought" they might stick in "I said" or "I did" to try to make the subject speak a line in the song. It's very subtle and can get by the writer very easily, but the listener will be forced to shift gears and may tune out. They have short attention span already so don't make it harder. Also, stay in character. Don't have them say or do something that doesn't fit . You are creating an imaginary person so make him (her) easy to visualize. In other words, if they are wierd, keep them weird, unless that's what the story is about, like how one day they changed and did something that no one expected. see what I mean.
Eric...sounds like you got a "high maintenance female" on your hands...lol
writeon...chazba

[Eric J]

Eric...sounds like you got a "high maintenance female" on your hands...lol

Actually, this one, (the one I married) is not. What struck me was that when I was singing the song a week or so ago, the reaciton was much more of a joke-y type thing, "oh you are, you?". But for the high-maintence former girlfriend from before, it was definitely NOT the thing to casually sing.

But all reactions must mean that song is effective, if people are singing it some thirty years later. Or else that wonderful 70's Jazz-lite from LA session guys.

Despite the fact that I think that Joni Mitchell sounds like 'Pebbles' from the flintstones in that song.
"Help me, I think I'm falling, in love again,
cause I got -buppaduppaduppabuddaduppa (sing that part like Pebbles talks)

[LI Slim]

The song is going to be different from, say, a novel, since you're actually singing it, also, probably, with some emotion. You're selling it like it's real, even if the particulars of the experience have nothing to do with your life. I guess being a singer-songwriter is like being a playright, actor and director all rolled into one.

I've had to explain to my wife more than once that a song is not about us. On those occasions she's been relieved. But if it's a "I want you so much, baby" song, it BETTER be about her!!

[TwklToez]

Ok dig this,

I'm a guy right and I wrote this song, from the first person but the character is a girl and it's a story/love song right. Now I am no homophobe, if people want to think I'm gay fine, but the problem was that the characters in the song weren't two men, it was a girl and a guy. But me singing "that was the first time i met him" sounded like 2 guys. I couldn't figure out a way around it, without hitting you voer the head (slipping something like "I'm a girl" in). I eventually reworked everything.

I think another technique that is fun is the whole alterego thing. start a song off with "my name is" and you prepare the listener for a point of view that obviously isn't you but still first person.

[Buffalo Bob]

Everything I write is in the third person. That's my story, and I'm stickin to it.

[LI Slim]

You mean, "everything Buffalo Bob writes is in the third person, and he's stickin' to it"!!!

[Buffalo Bob]

What "he" said.

[badgas]

I read this thread a few days ago.
I never gave that much thought, till you brought it up.
I was going to reply, but thought I'd wait and mull my songs around a bit.

Yep, I do everything in first person. Don't know if it's intentional, or conveniant. I know it's easier. For me.
Now I'll have to try a new approach and do a third person, or second.

When I write and perform, the songs I do is ment to come from me. First person.
An interesting thread.

[Buffalo Bob]

When Buffalo Bob writes, he always writes in the third person, because then he has plausible deniability. This was not a problem until he got married, and everything he wrote came under very close scrutiny.
He reserves the right, though, to use the first person if anything interesting ever actually happens to him. Hope springs eternal.

[Eric J]

And as far as writing songs go, the song comes out as it comes out, you analyze it after. I think that if you worry too much about perspectives and narratives (and all those other things you thought you left behind in English class) those really can get in the way if you think about them too much, or post about them too much.

Less thinking, more singing!

But some things come to mind. The song that started me thinking about this whole thing is a Richard Thompson song,
I feel so good

Now I love this song, and I was thinking of covering it, but I wouldn't feel comforatable playing it. (just lyrically - there's a whole bunch of other issues in playing a Richard Thompson song, like having to be able to play your guitar).

Any songs that you wouldn't feel comfortable playing?

[badgas]

Originally posted by Eric J
Any songs that you wouldn't feel comfortable playing?

I can name a few.
1. Girls just wanna have fun.
2. Stand by your man.
3. Jill of all trades.


Seriously, I don't do anyones stuff anymore but my own, and when I was doing other peoples stuff I was with a band most of the time so I didn't care, as long as I played music.
I probably have the same mind set, I just wanna play, even if I sing about having fun.

[BigPapaFly]

"Help Me" is one of my all time favorites.

I was drunk in a bar in Beverly Hills several years ago and Joni strolled in. I'm not a scotch drinker, and so, after ten shots of scotch, I was ready...I appraoched her --- ready for the cold shoulder...I kneeled down next to her table and said: "excuse me," (my heavy-metal friends watched, not understanding why my eyes watered up when this old woman walked in). Just then, the house band, lead by Harry Dean Stanton, called her up to perform and she brushed me off without a response. I stood (I swayed, actually) five feet from Joni while she sang "Sumertime" from Porgy and Bess-- as a duet with Stanton. I returned to my table and my long-hair friends...when she returned to her table she looked around the bar, made eye contact with me, and waved me over. We chatted for about ten minutes about "Hissing of Summer Lawns." I told her how she made me understand women, and she said she'd never heard that before.

Every time I sing "Help Me," every time I hear it (before that night, and still)...that song is always about me...and Joni....that night just before closing time in a small bar just off Wilshire and LaBrea.

Everyone listens in fist person...and they sing in first person, too.

[chazba]

Hmmmm....how 'bout "WONDER BOY"?