Writing a great hook

[WEBCYAN]

This is driving me nuts...
I have just recently purchased an acoustic guitar, electric, amp, mics, cakewalk & cool edit, drum machine software, and a keyboard, BUT now I actually have to start writing.

The kind of music I want to make I would say is a mix between Marilyn Manson(not his vocals, but rather the glam rock guitar style), Orgy, and Nirvana.

I want to write in a rock/techno/grunge way. My voice is actually quite good and is a mix between the soaring and full sound of Orgy's Jay Gordon and a lil bit of "distortion" in the form of Kurt Cobain.

Anyway...

IMHO, it doesnt matter what kind of music you write the hook is the all important factor. I think that Bush, although not very original, were a great hook writing band. Their album 16 Stone is full of songs with really solid hooks throughout them that really grab you.
My problem is that when I write the vocal melody my hooks sounds really boring, overused, or totally bland.

I recently thought of a method of writing hooks. What I first do is record myself playing random chords, like...D, C, D, G. Or somthing like that, as long as it sounds pretty good together. I play each chord for a full bar, for 4 total bars. Then I play that looping through my speakers having it kind of act as rythym(i cant spell...) guitar, while I play my guitar live over it. Using my live guitar I just pick single notes rather than chords. First I just follow the rythym guitar to the note, then I start doing some variations and just see what works well. Then I take the live guitar riff and hum it with my voice. I hum that over the 4 chord rythym guitar and it should produce a nice hook.

I have a pretty good range(about 1.5 octaves) but theres only so much the human voice can do, so that factors in...

This is all in theory though. I thought it up just last night and havent even tried it yet.

I got the idea after listening "smells like teen spirit" by nirvana. The solo is playing over the rythem guitars 4 simple chords. The solo melody is exactly the same melody as the vocals in the verse...So that got me thinking....Why not use that as a tool to write captivating hooks.

I'll be trying it out soon.
So, am I making any sense? Does this work for anyone else?

[dragonworks]

You dont write great hooks, they come about on their own if you know what I mean?

[WEBCYAN]

what...?

They don't just "pop up" out of nowhere. There is a method to doing it. What Im saying is that if you can get a solid rythym guitar chord progression and build on that with what sounds good to your ear you should come up with somthing fairly interesting. You dont just sit there and wait for somthing to happen.

[struberg]

dont sit and wait - sit and play
play, play, play, listen, play. play, play,...

[Buffalo Bob]

What hook?

[WEBCYAN]

what?

Im not sure what you mean.

[Henri Devill]

If that works for you then go with it ! There is no universal formula ..The only thing that will get you to the point of writeing great hooks,is to write alot of shitty ones..I guess what Im trying to say is write 10 crappy songs you get 1 decent one...

Don

[Cyrokk]

Struberg is right on the money. Most often a hook, riff or theme comes from constant playing and improvisation, whether in your room by yourself, or with a group of players (I guess it could work with a programmed loop as you describe, although I never write that way because there is no unspoken vibe, and I feel too limited in the structure)..

What usually happens for me is I'll just play in the same vein as whatever mood I am in, or whatever mood I want to capture.. It usually starts with some groove or set of chords that I always play.. Knowing that these chords are far too redundant to take seriously, I start to branch out of my box, trying notes or fingerings I normally don't play.. finally something will come out that I don't want to stop playing.. at that point I know I have a hook that can stand further development..

It could be instantaneous (rare) or take weeks or even months (common) but most of the best hooks just kinda flow out of you when you are not really trying to write them.. And it can be a pain in the ass at times too: coming up with a bunch of fabulous riffs that you have absolutely no time to develop..

Cy

[Eurythmic]

Most of my hooks have come to me by accident. I might be playing or singing random notes, and suddenly I'll think, "Hey, that sounded really good."

[Whyte Ice]

You Don't Go To The Hooks.

The Hooks Come To You.

[SeanF]

Almost all of the good hooks I've written have come to me by complete accident. Playing the wrong chord, "throwing" my fingers on the fretboard and finding that the resulting chord sounds good (and then "guessing" where the next chord should be), or even by playing while watching TV and NOT thinking about what I'm playing...

IMO, the bottom line is that the more you force it, the less the hooks will come. Just play, play, and play...

[dragonworks]

Some of the respondees seem to know what I mean, know what I mean?

[struberg]

Some of my best catches were also accidently, but more the electronic way. I use Logic Audio for composing and sometimes you play a pattern with a completly wrong synth or program and wonder how great this - say drum track sounds if played on a (sampled) minimoog . Also try to select some or all notes and move them around in your editor. Sometimes, you will get great results.

So, all the mentioned tricks are higher gramar of music - but first you'll have to learn the whole alphabet by playing, playing, playing. All the tricks don't work if you have to think to long for how to use them - 10 minutes later your best ideas will be lost, so all these things have to happen automatically.

[ShakesTheClown]

Must be a different lingo in here then what I am used too. To me a "hook" has always been the whole point of the song, pretty much always a lyrical twist.

Anyway the way I get my hooks mostly is by watching TV, converstation, books, old sayings ETC.

A double meaning is the most common hook something like
"She LEFT, and she had every RIGHT", etc.

So I think I agree with dragon, hooks just come to you. You can't force um.

[dragonworks]

Anyone can write a hook. Were talking a great hook., thats different.

[ifpo238]

I always thought "hook" meant catchy pop melody. Here's a formula:

1. Pick your favorite beer.
2. Pick your favorite scale.
3. Drink your favorite beer.
4. Start playing random notes on your favorite scale to your aforementioned rhythm guitar.
5. Kinda half pay attention to what you're doing.
6. When something sounds good, repeat it, and use that as the seed.
7. Use the scale to flesh it out.
8. Record, release, become famous, drink even more beer, end up in rehab, and grin wickedly when they interview you for "Behind the Music."

Hope this helps.

-j

[ShakesTheClown]

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying I am right or know it all here just my 2 cents..


I am a songwriter, when I say I am a songwriter I mean thats what I do for a living, day in day out I write songs. I write with Grammy award winning songwriters as well as those with MEGA cuts in both pop and Country. The meaning of the "hook" here at least in Nashville is the catch phraze, the point of the song, that tricky little play on words etc.. Its the payoff that makes the whole song awesome.. No hook=shit song.. Now at least thats how the lingo works down here, but it might be different among people in other places but as far as the professional songwriting communitty goes thats pretty much what it means.. There is a lot of terminolgy with songwriting but I just wanted to share what it was down here in the south, but ya know things work different down here ;-)

[Buffalo Bob]

You're right, Shakes! Down here, a "hook" is a piece of curved steel with a sharp point that we catch fish with! There's also "to hook", which is something totally different.

Bob

[WEBCYAN]

ive come across 2 realizations.

Last night at about 4am(I sleep from 3pm to 7pm, sleep is for those who dont have anything to do..) I just picked up my acoustic and played the 1st 4 chords that came to my head. Totally randomly I strummed C Dm Am F. I dont know anything about chord families, music theory, and all that jazz. I just know what sounds good. Using those chords I hummed a lil song and i love it now. So i guess you all are right about hooks just coming to you.

Another thing that makes all the difference...

In the past when I wrote a song I concentrated on melody first, lyrics second. What I would is actually sing the words to another song but try to make up my own melody. The main problem is that my melody kept sounding like the song of the lyrics i was using...
So, just today I changed my method. I wrote downt eh lyrics first and then tried to think of a good melody for it. And it worked! I did all of this in my engineering drawing class humming the song in my head. When I got out of class as I was walking to my dorm about 3 other totally original melodies that sounded awesome came to my head.

So from now on when I write my own stuff im going to totally distance myself from anyone elses music. I want mine to be originall, not similar to another artists.

BTW...have you ever hear a song that is original, but eerily sounds like another song. I heard some song by O-Town(i think its like their 2nd single.) anyway, the song sucks, but it sounds like i had heard it somewhere else. Wait....I think its called "all for nothing" or somthing like that...
anyway...

[Buffalo Bob]

HEY SHAKES!!!
What's the best demo studio in Nashville? I've been in contact with Jerry Peters at Midi Magic, and his prices and quality are ok, but I think his style is a little dated. Got anybody you could recommend? Basic Country demo type thingy. Thanks in advance.

Bob

[ShakesTheClown]

heh I would say me BUT, Direct Image is a kickass deal and sounds very nice but its one of those things where you have to have your shit together when you go in.. I co-wrote a song with someone who is doing a demo overthere of our song on Dec 18th so i'll see how that goes. I have heard many demos done overthere and the price VS result is quite nice.. They have days they cut and on those days they have a studio stock full of A class players and just do um all in a one day session kinda thing.

http://www.directimagerecording.com

I'll let ya hear the one the girl is having done overthere after Dec 18th..

[ifpo238]

I'm a big Devo fan, and a lot of their stuff is "borrowed" from other songs. The "Whip It" bassline is the first part of the lick from "Oh, Pretty Woman." "Fourth Dimension"'s guitar solo is note for note "Day Tripper." "Beautiful World" has a lick that is very, very similar to "What I'd Say," and, in their lyrics, they even sing "Tell me what I'd say," I guess as a sort of tip of the hat.

-j

[Buffalo Bob]

Thanks, man! I appreciate the help. I just need a "mail-order" demo. I can put together a rough demo, but they're not good enough to pitch in town. I listened to some of their samples and it definitely beats MIDI!
When I come to town I'd like to look you up and visit your studio too. Best wishes from the tropics!

Bob

[ShakesTheClown]

yeah sounds cool, but hey don't do a mail order man. Not that it will sound bad but its like an extra 175.00 for that. hit me with an email at nashpub@home.com and then i'll give ya my number.