What we want in the next CEP

[mastahnke]

Let's make a list of all the features we would like in the next CEP. That way, we can figure out what the Syntrillium needs to do to stay competetive. They are used in radio a lot, but not so much in recording anymore. They didn't keep up with CuBase and stuff like that. Anyone want to make a list?


I would like

--a history option like in photoshop so I know what I did to each track

--preview effects in the mix in real time

--real time effects period.


--Not having the playback quit at the end of a screen while zooming unless I want it to

[Chriss]

Filters with stages and transition curves!!!
You'd be able to add some filter to grooves, vocals and similar so you don't have to do it in a sampler and record it all over again.. it's too stupid

BPM synced delay and echo dammit!!!
it's the 21'st century peeps!! How much thinking can it take???

[Whyte Ice]

I pretty much like it how it is right now but I wish there was timed record in multitrack mode.

[camn]

Fuck.. Id like a new version. Its never gonna happen.


xxooxox



ps...real time effects previews in mix mode.

[brokenwindow]

I think the main thing everybody wants..(including me).... Is realtime fx.

This is probably the biggest drawback from using CEP..as comparerd to other similar programs.

Hell....even N-track has it and that cost like 30 bucks..

I am looking forward to the new version...but not holding my breath..

[MarkST]

After waiting all this time, I'd just like a new version - who cares what's in it!

Mark

[pablo]

MIDI

[dobro]

Syntrillium hasn't died, despite not having released Cool Edit 2.0 in a long, long time. That tells me they're doing okay, and that they're coming out with a new version. That also tells me that they've probably incorporated all your ideas and more.

Now, you might think I'm posting this in some sort of 'let's hang in there and be loyal to Cool Edit' sort of thing, but it's not like that. I think it's come down to this: it's reasonable at this point to do one of two things - wait for 2.0 (I think it's relatively imminent, and I think that Cool Edit 2.0 is going to be a powerful, reliable program) or move to a program you think is just as interesting, and twice as purchasable at the moment.

But I've got a question that I think is pretty relevant: what's Cool Edit 2.0 gonna cost? Are users of 1.2 gonna be given upgrade prices? No, right? And this software isn't cheap, right? If I have to pay for a completely new program, why not buy another program other than Cool Edit 2.whatever, which gives me the option of using two GOOD programs instead of an upgrade to the one I've got?

Let's debate it. Take me on.

[dobro]

Pablo - yeah, MIDI, and surely that's one reason it's taken so long to get 2.0 out - they're including midi.

[brokenwindow]

I think there should be a lower price for owners of 1.2. I really don't see that happening, but..it would be nice.

One of the reasons I like Cool Edit is it's lack of Midi. I don't use midi at all and I don't like a bunch of midi stuff cluttering up the screen. Almost every other program out there has midi capabilities...CEP doesn't need to be one of them.

If they do incorporate midi..at least have it so you can hide all the midi crap in the program...unlike every other program.

[windowman]

Originally posted by brokenwindow
I think there should be a lower price for owners of 1.2. I really don't see that happening, but..it would be nice.

One of the reasons I like Cool Edit is it's lack of Midi. I don't use midi at all and I don't like a bunch of midi stuff cluttering up the screen. Almost every other program out there has midi capabilities...CEP doesn't need to be one of them.

If they do incorporate midi..at least have it so you can hide all the midi crap in the program...unlike every other program.

I agree totally! I hate midi with an undying passion. I just don't understand why anyone would need midi stuff gumming up the works. If a person can't even decide what sounds they want before they start recording or don't have the tallent to record without constantly going back to fix mistakes then they probably aren't ready to record yet.

I just got the new Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro and I'm really happy with it. 32 stereo tracks, real-time effects, everything anyone would need for a little over a hundred bucks. I use CE2000 for an editor and that's all folks....

(The "other" windowman here.)

[Chriss]

the "other" windowman?, eh?

[windowman]

the "other" windowman?, eh?

I just knew some idiot was going to say that.

Well, here's me:

Bill Seper
345 West 'H' Street
Belleville, IL. 62226
618-277-1989

That's my business phone and you'll get a voice message for "We Do Windows" window cleaning company. Same as it's been since 1989 (thus the ending suffix of the number.) Of course you can always get onto one of the many on-line yellow page directories and look it up to verify. And then why not give me a call so I can tell you to go to blazes in person moron.

If I wanted to come in here with a different identity I wouldn't have to think long on something a little more original than a play off "windows". Besides, how dumb would would you have to be not to realize that the moderators can look at your IP# and always know who you are? Think a little.

[Milkman]

I agree with you folks about the MIDI - I don't want it in CEP. I use CEP for audio recording and editing. If I wanted MIDI, I would open up Cakewalk Pro Audio 9. It is that simple - different programs have purposes.

[windowman]

Sorry if I came on a little strong about the midi stuff. If someone wants to use it that's their business and not mine. I'm glad there are a couple of programs for recording out here that don't have it though. I started out with Cakewalk Guitar Tracks 2.0 (8 stereo tracks) which doesn't have midi and never had any problems with it. Then I upgraded to Guitar Studio (16 mono tracks + 256 midi) and it was a nightmare to manuver around al this midi stuff that I didn't even want on there. Now the new GT Pro is 32 stereo tracks and no midi in sight. It records very well and I think the stability of the program (as well as CE Pro) might have a lot to do with the fact that it's not loaded down with midi features. I don't really know but that's my guess.

I see an awful lot of posts by people with midi problems--latency and system resource stuff mostly. I have to wonder if they wouldn't be better off using an outboard sequencer and just laying a simpte stripe to sync it?

[camn]

Originally posted by windowman
the "other" windowman?, eh?

I just knew some idiot was going to say that.

Well, here's me:

Bill Seper
345 West 'H' Street
Belleville, IL. 62226
618-277-1989

That's my business phone and you'll get a voice message for "We Do Windows" window cleaning company. Same as it's been since 1989 (thus the ending suffix of the number.) Of course you can always get onto one of the many on-line yellow page directories and look it up to verify. And then why not give me a call so I can tell you to go to blazes in person moron.

If I wanted to come in here with a different identity I wouldn't have to think long on something a little more original than a play off "windows". Besides, how dumb would would you have to be not to realize that the moderators can look at your IP# and always know who you are? Think a little.

what the -f- are you talking aboot, dude?????

??
xoxo

[windowman]

Please....

[Garak]

I would like some midi support. I'm thinking of buying a set of digital drums and I would like to beable to give the song I'm working on a midi click track.

Then once everyone gets their parts done I can do the drums in midi, quantize then output back threw the sound module and record the audio into CEP.

Preview of effects in the mix is needed big time.

A little reconfigurable mixer would be nice. For control of pans and levels of each track. I hate having to go to each track and double click to mix. On the same lines as this support of control surfaces would be nice as well. There is some support now for midi control surfaces.

Access to diffrent sound drivers, in win2k with my delta 44 in CEP i can only access the montior mixer and not in inputs directly so I can only record two tracks at a time. I know the delta 44 can do 4in/4out in 2k with some software.

Someone said above bpm sync of delay and echos. If you know the bpm the song is played at you can calculate the delay in ms from that. I can't remember how todo it off hand. I just used it last week but the musican did the math.

But what would be really nice would be if you could overlay you BPM to see if everything is on time and snap to 1/4 or 1/8 notes. Great for when the artist says I came in a measure to late or something. Also I can't seem to find a click track generator in CEP. I usually use hammer head to do off hihat ticks at what ever BPM I need but then I have to wait for the lenght of the song and then I have to upsample to 48k/24bit.

Recapping:
-Preview of effects in mix
-Basic midi support
-Control surface support/mixer console window
-Better support for directsound/asio/other driver types
-Better Click track/BPM support and snap to notes(For moving parts).

[Scott Tansley]

I think the program is the best of its kind already.
But here's my blurb,

I would like it to include,

1. The ability to move channels around. So that when you do that extra cymbol take (for example)

you could move it up and just underneath the rest of the drums location without having to rename

the channel thing on the left and rename everything below it. And yes you should be still able to

move just the wav as well.(as it is now)

2. The default position for the volume envelopes should be 3/4 up, not at 100%. This will leave

you headroom to turn UP as well as down your track. I do this anyway, on every track, this is a

good free tip for all you guy's.

3. Would be great to be able to run video at the same time, for example just a small .avi or .mov

type vid file would be great. And if you could it would be good if you could also be able to

record while it played back.

Now the things I would not like to see.

1. Midi. Real musicians use real guitars, real amps (not modeling amps) real basses, real drums

played by real drummers, real violins etc. Who wants to be perfectly in time anyway. Midi sucks,

midi is dead, move on. I dont want a click track, I have a human being drummer, beat that.
2. Realtime effects. Because they are always a compramise. Unless you have thousands worth of dsp

hardware that can run (some) of them in realtime you will have to run them at lower quality

algorithums like at 8 or 16bit. The way it is, is fine. There high quality effects that sound

great. Add realtime effects and it will bog down and slow down like pro tools. Before I got my

multichannel soundcard, I had just as much ease recording with my old soundblaster awe64. This

program works with any soundcard. Try doing that with protools. In fact try doing anything with

protools.

The best thing iv'e ever seen in any piece of software is cool edits swapfile. The program

continually writes what your doing to the swapfile. I can record (and have done) 9 tracks of

drums a gutar and a bass track and without even saving the tracks off the power could go off and

next time I boot up its all still there under the continue session button. PLEASE dont ever loose

[Garak]

Even with a drummer around the studio all the time there are parts where the drummer stops and one person plays on in a solo and its like impossiable for everyone to comeback in on time.

Most of the time I don't have a drummer around the studio so I have to use a click track when a musican is laying down their track in a song weather it be a bass, gtr or even a vocal. Drums are sometimes the last thing I have to laydown because the drummer is busy with school or work and can only come in on a saterday or something.

Also alot of delay effects need a fixed BPM and not only on the computer effects but on stuff like the line 6 Pods and amps.

"Real musicians use real guitars, real amps (not modeling amps) real basses, real drums played by real drummers, real violins etc"

How is using a modeling amp any diffrent from using the software effects in CEP.

As for being perfect in time the click track ins't there for perfect in time. Its to make things tight and to help musicans navigate the music. Unless your taking everything off the floor its hard for musicians to get tight when they can only hear their bandmates in a pair of headphones.

For some bands I have no other choice because of their playing style than take the Drums and Bass off the floor at the same time. Also some music has crazy timeing(changing BPM0 and dosn't fit on paper(in 4/4 timeing and stuff). Most of this music has been just been jammed out and never written on paper by young bands(metal and hardcore punk and stuff).

[Scott Tansley]

"How is using a modeling amp any diffrent from using the software effects in CEP. "

Very different. Try getting feedback out of a plugin? Try miking up a plugin to get a bit of room sound? If you leave your pod on for an hour does it sound warmer? not?

Pods are ok practice amps, and a poor mans real amp.

If you need a clicktrack to play tight then you best be practising a lot more eh.

Record your drums first not last. Drummers hate having to play in time to other musicians who usually need drummers to keep them in time anyway.

Sorry, this is more of a response to Garak. Iv'e already said my bit about new features above.
Garak, if you have to compromise your recording technique then your end result will be compromised too

[Garak]

I aways mic a real amp when recording but the gutair usually goes through an amp simulator like the pod first. That way you get tube warmth with the great sound from the Pod. I've seen a few big bands use this live on stage.

Sometimes we use a modeling amp like a flextone or a tubetron which simulate the sound of a tube amp. But they do sound digital and sometimes thats the sound we want.

Thats the idea of the click track to keep the musicans on time so when the drumer can get into the studio they don't have to follow the other muscians for timeing they follow the click track.

Some bands follow the drummer or atleast the bass player follows the drummer in others the drummer follows the bass and gtr.

I'm not a musican myself. I'm a sound tech.

[camn]

Originally posted by Scott Tansley

. Because they are always a compramise. Unless you have thousands worth of dsp

hardware that can run (some) of them in realtime you will have to run them at lower quality

algorithums like at 8 or 16bit. The way it is, is fine. There high quality effects that sound

great.

I would like realtime PREVIEWS in MIX mode, as a compromise, so-to-speak. Because I want to HEAR what that compression setting is going to sound like against the mix w/o wasting time processing the track.. And I have the horses for it, so why not??

Thats not a compromise.... Real musicians play EVERYTHING they can get their hands on.. lame technitions limit themselves to one thing or idea.

Wouldnt you like to really dial in the right kinf of reverb or comp?? Ill bet you dont as things are. I bet you kind of guess which one would be best, because you dont want to wait through ANOTHER processing of a vocal track. I know I do.

THAT, my friend, is compromising.

xoox

[Scott Tansley]

Here we go, camm all to the rescue. I was just wondering why you didn't jump in on me earlier like you usually do and try and heap shit on me again. ...Then apologising for it later to make it alright.

Back to buisness..

Look, I guess a realtime PREVIEW would be good so long as it mixes down at higher quality.

"Real musicians play EVERYTHING they can get their hands on.. lame technitions limit themselves to one thing or idea. "

Exactly, I couldn't agree more. well said, for once!

"Wouldnt you like to really dial in the right kinf of reverb or comp?? Ill bet you dont as things are. I bet you kind of guess which one would be best, because you dont want to wait through ANOTHER processing of a vocal track. I know I do."

Again we see camm making assumptions about me, Just because YOU guess (now don't be lazy camm, its all worth it in the end) NO I don't guess what reverb or compression or compressor I want. Its usually something thats decided before we even record. Just like which guitar or bass i'm going to use is decided before we record. With experience you too will learn what to do beforehand. Ever heard of pre-production camm? But yes there's always the small tweeking of settings later to make it all gel. No
big deal.
Lame technicians (yes I can spell it!) feel the need to experiment later on because they have no idea what to do beforehand.

[Scott Tansley]

Garak you said,Even with a drummer around the studio all the time there are parts where the drummer stops and one person plays on in a solo and its like impossiable for everyone to comeback in on time.
Good point!
What we do in these situations is have the drummer keep time with his hats in those breaks or if there 's a cymbol still ringing and you don't want to hear the hats, get the drummer to lightly tap the hats mike stand. It won't get picked up in the overheads, it will be good for everyone else to keep time to when doing there takes and you can remove it from the mix later easily. Even better get him to tap the snare mic if its a sure57. That'll give you a brighter click. And the 57 can take it. This will always have a better feel than a click track to play to. And your right, its not always possible to record the drummer in the first take, just better if you can.

I for got to ask for a better sounding parametric eq. Its not too bad on bass and most other individual tracks but sounds harsh on mastering. I still havn't found a better sounding digital par eq than an analogue one. Even cheap...er (but not really cheap) analogue eq's are hard to beat with any pluggin.