Vegas Pro Buss Levels don't jive

[lunkhead]

Question about mixing down using multiple busses in Vegas Pro. I typically have 4 busses running, one for vocals, one bass, one guitars, one drums. If I adjust the bus volume levels, then mix it all down to a stereo track, the resulting mixed track does not have the same volume mix as the multibus version. What's up with that? For instance, if I drop the vocal bus down a notch or two til I'm satisfied, then mix it all down to stereo, the vocals will end up way too low. It seems that the bus volume changes are exaggerated in the mixdown. So it amounts to the bus faders being worthless, I don't touch them anymore. Also, that Preview bus doesn't do anything. Whatup?

Help?

Lunkhead

[drstawl]

How is your system physically wired to the soundcard output(s)?

Do you have any choice of outputs selectable within Vegas?

Each track has to have a bus.

Each bus has to have a physical output.

When you "mix to new track" the tracks are directly mixed into a stereo pair with the track volumes controlled from the individual tracks. So changing the volume of a bus output won't affect the mixdown volume!

[lunkhead]

Each track is on a bus, as described above, with four busses.

Physically, I have all busses going to one pair of outputs to my monitors. In software, also all busses output to one pair, so they're essentially "mixed" as I hear them. But what I hear and what gets mixed to a stereo pair on mixdown is not the same.

[drstawl]

The bus volumes are only of value if you're sending them to some other physical output. What you're hearing is NOT from the busses but directly from the tracks, since you only have one pair of outputs.

[gnarled]

I'm not sure thats right. When I render to a new file in Vegas Audio, the mixed down track is 'post-bus.' In other words, the effects applied to the busses and the relative volumes of the busses ARE reflected in the final mix. Now, I've rarely bounced to a new track, so that may be different. Lunkhead- how are you mixing down the tracks?

[drstawl]

gnarled: The "bounce to a new track" is what Vegas calls "Mix to New Track" which is a mixdown of all non-muted tracks and their applied effects to a new stereo track. You may be talking about external mixdown as opposed to mixdown in S/W. You are right in saying that the signal path through the BUSSES includes the volume and effects controls of BOTH the tracks and the BUSSES(tracks first) but this gets sent to a physical output. It isn't used by the "Mix to New Track" command.

I just tried this experiment:

I loaded identical stereo tracks onto the track view and directed one to BUS A and the other to BUS B with the outputs of each BUS directed to the same physical output. I panned one track hard left and one hard right, and cut the volume of each track ~5 dB to compensate for the tracks each being normalized (the wav files themselves were normalized- I didn't use the Vegas normalization checkbox) and then summed. Playing with the BUS volumes while the tracks played back was startling. With each BUS volume control at 0 dB, cutting the volume on ONE of the BUSSES RAISED the overall output volume dramatically. Strangely enough raising the volume on one of the BUSSES had the same effect! That doesn't sound right, does it? When the BUSSES are directed to different physical outputs for external mixdown, the changes in BUS settings are reflected logically in the output.

[gnarled]

Yeah, I was talking about the File/render as... command to mix down 'externally.' Actually, what you said makes sense, its probably better that the 'mix to new track' command is pre-bus. So, Lunkhead, why not just render to a .wav file and import it back into vegas, that way it will be post buss.

I'll have to try your experiment, 'cause it doesn't really make sense to me - when you say that lowering the volume of one of the busses increased the overall output volume, do you mean increased the volume of the sum (mixed to new track) of the two tracks? If so, then the 'mix to new track' isn't really pre-bus, is it?

[drstawl]

>I'll have to try your experiment, 'cause it doesn't really make sense to me - when you say that lowering the volume of one of >the busses increased the overall output volume, do you mean increased the volume of the sum (mixed to new track) of the two >tracks? If so, then the 'mix to new track' isn't really pre-bus, is it?

I wasn't doing a mix to new track. I just put the tracks up side by side, directed them to busses connected to the same physical output as explained and hit play. While they were playing I monkeyed with the bus volumes and got the results I reported. Yup- starting from each bus set at 0 dB (flat) any increase or decrease in either bus led to the output volume getting dramatically louder. Mix to new track is always pre-bus- but any effects applied to a bus can also be applied to the end of each track effects chain to get the equivalent treatment.

[lunkhead]

I do believe the "mix to new track" is post bus, because I have used effects on the busses that got rendered to the mixed file. My original question was, when you start playing with the bus volume levels, what you hear is not what gets rendered. Someone recently explained why on the www.sonicfoundry forum, which sort of made sense. They said the "new"version of Vegas will correct it. I guess the quick answer is, don't change the bus volumes when you mix to new track, or send each bus to a separate physical output and mix down from there.

Thanks all for the input
Lunkhead