I need to write horn parts out - HELP!

[bluesdaddy]

I am a guitar player with no formal musical training. I am in a jump blues/r&b band that has a three horn section. When i write songs I have these great horn parts in my head. I want to get them down somewhere so I can hear them abd my horn player can hear them. What the best way for me to notate these horn parts in some audio format?

Soundfonts and a midi controller?

Any help is appreciated

Thanks
Lenny

[TimOBrien]

Do you write music notation????

Go to www.myriad-online.com and get a copy of Melody Assistant (only $18 and works on PC or Mac). Super easy notation tool and you can play the music as a sound or MIDI file.

[Gidge]

I think just playing the horn parts on a cheapie little Casio type keyboard into any kind of recorder will be enough for a proficient horn player......

[Max Freniere]

Hi!

I think that the soundfont and midi device is the best approach.
You can buy a keyboard controler (if you don`t already have one).
It will simplify all midi recording.

You can download soundfonts at many places. Check out the quality, some are real crap.

One last thing. To be good, you should listen to as many recording of horns. You can even buy a method book of few instruments to learn more about it ( i got some doublebass, drum, trumpet, sax, ect.. books and i learn a lot of little tricks from them).

Everything depend on what you want. If you just want to compose and give a hint to the horn section players, you do not need to loose time on fine tuning the track, rough is ok.

Hope it help

Max Freniere
Freniere Guitares

[chazba]

In my experience, the best way to learn to write for horns is to hang ouy with horn players. They are usually pretty hip guys and lots of times all I had to do was sing the part to them and they got it right away. They all speak "scat" like "bop-bop-bee-da" and " doo-dooo-dit" and " doo-wa" You know what I mean?? This is a tried and true method for communicating what you want them to do . They will help you out with the currently hip phrases to use. If you don't understand what I'm talking about , try listening to some older {50-ish) jazz records. Guys like DIZZY GILLESPIE laid it down so solid that it still works today. Check out James Brown& the Famous Flames and listen to the horns, Then try to sing the lines in "scat" I think you'll get it right away. Also the old MussleShoals records like Sam&Dave, etc. also Early Chicago (CTA)
Good luck...chazba

[Max Freniere]

Yes, it work great

is even easier to figure it out, think like you are a trumpet player.
DOO-BEE-DO-BEE-DOO-WHA.

My trumpet player friend understood me right away.

Thanks for the tip

Max Freniere
Freniere Guitares eng.

[Tom Hicks]

Trumpets and bones are in B flat,saxes are in E flat. If your goal is to produce sheet music that your horn section can read,you will need to put it into the proper form for them.
For example,a lick that goes "G - G - B flat - C" in concert pitch will be "A - A - C - D" for trumpet and "D - D - G - A" for sax.

Tom

[memphissound]

Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture is written in the key of E-flat concert, three flats. The key signature, for a "C" instrument, like a piano, will show a Bb, Eb, and Ab. A trumpet is a "Bb" instrument. The key signature for it will look like the key of F, showing a Bb only. Take a look at the following link to see how other instruments fit into this scheme.

http://www.destefanomusic.com/pdf/1812.pdf

The alto-sax is written in the key of C, no sharps or flats, it is a "Eb" instrument.
The tenor-sax is written in the key of F, one flat (Bb), it is a "Bb" instrument.
The french-horn is written in the key of Bb, two flats (Bb, Eb), it is a "F" instrument.
The trombone is written in the key of Eb, three flats (Bb, Eb, Ab), it is a "C" instrument.

Everybody is playing in the same key of Eb concert, but the parts are written out transposed. Also, keep an eye out for the range you put the parts in. Here is a great resouce for that.

http://music-arrangers.com/instruments/

Their home page is a great jumping off place to get to a lot of great information. Includes a chart on what keys are good for horns, what key to transpose the arrangements to for various instruments, and a whole bunch of other good stuff.

http://www.music-arrangers.com/

Peace <><

[mikeh]

I agree with Gidge - playing the parts into even a cassette should work - even humming the parts into a casette should be enough.

[memphissound]

If you really want your horn parts to "pop" and be tight, learn how to indicate the style in which you want the notes played. Horn players call it "articulation". Are notes slurred together, short and separated, accented hard or with extra weight,...

The next thing would be dynamics. Take the time to mark the relative volume each passage should be played. Learning the symbols for it will really speed things up.
(pp=very soft, p=soft, mp=sort of soft, mf=sort of loud, f=loud, ff=very loud)

Combining these aspects into your horn charts will make learning the parts easier. Varying them within a composition will keep the horn players awake too. As a LONG TIME horn player (since 1981) I would be happy to help you with anything I can. And I've played all styles. I love the sound of a horn section in a popular music context.

Peace <><

[dhosek]

Originally posted by bluesdaddy
I am a guitar player with no formal musical training. I am in a jump blues/r&b band that has a three horn section. When i write songs I have these great horn parts in my head. I want to get them down somewhere so I can hear them abd my horn player can hear them. What the best way for me to notate these horn parts in some audio format?

Your horn players will most certainly want to have parts in notation. If you can't read music and want to communicate with horn players, first step is learn to read. As has already been noted you want to be able to mark the notes, rhythms and articulations.

Work with your horn players on this, especially starting out. You need to hear what the different ranges of the instruments sound like so that you don't end up writing, e.g., low sax parts that sound more like goose than bird. Or writing parts that are outside the range of the instrument.

Traditional R&B/jump horn parts are in unison/octaves. That simplifies your task somewhat (on the other hand, if what you're hearing are Chicago-style horn licks, they did some tasty harmonization there, which is worth studying for its own value).

Be aware that you've got to do transpositions for everyone but the trombone. Also, be aware that saxes generally sound a lot lower than the written part (altos sound a sixth lower, tenors a ninth and baritones a full octave below the alto). Typically the parts will have the trombone and sax sounding in unison with the trumpet an octave above.

But again, work with the horn players.

-dh