How do I go down low to B# without getting buzz.....

[heretic4u]

Yeah just wondering bought this how does james and mick form slipknot go down to B# on 6 strings with ernie ball strings without getting a great deal of buzz?

[toyL]

what do you mean by "go down to b#"?... if you are having trouble with buzzing strings, whether you are goin down or up or whatever, there are at least a couple of things you can do--take your guitar to the local repair-shop and have them make some adjustments, or get rid of the damn thing and buy a gibson or a fender....good guitars sound good even if the strings buzz here and there...

[heretic4u]

I take my low e and put it to a b#. Which is really low. And my guitar is a dean so it is a sweet fucken guitar better than those damn fenders.

Heretic

[Tom Hicks]

You can tune any guitar as low as you want to without buzzing.The key is string height over the neck.Raise 'en up.Also check the neck for straightness.By loosening the tension of the strings,the tension rod may be out of balance with that and pull the neck back as a result.Check by sighting from the headstock down the neck,comparing that to the low E string as a straight-edge.

Tom

p.s. dramatic tension changes like this are bad for the intonation as you have noticed

[heretic4u]

How do I raise the string height?

[Hard2Hear]

i GUARANTEE The guy you mentioned is using a different nut that was originally on the guitar. He more than likely has a different scale length guitar, also, designed for that tuning. Several guitar makers are making guitars for this tuning now. Check out the Fender Sub-Sonic Strat and Tele.

The first thing you'll have to do if you are set on using your current guitar, is get a nut custom cut for those string guages, set the slots high, then have it set up for the new strings. It will take some additional tension on the trussrod.

H2H

[Tom Hicks]

less tension from the strings means the truss rod will need to have its tension REDUCED to counterbalance the forces.When adjusting the rod (right tighty-lefty loosey) use quarter turn increments and check the neck after each adjustment.Do it real slow and careful!

Tom

[Slackmaster2K]

The ONLY solution is to go to a very high string gauge. Slipknot might use Ernie Ball strings, but they don't use regular or power slinkies, that's for damn sure. A set of 13's might get you there, but you might have to go even bigger. A lot of music stores don't carry strings this heavy, and if they do they'll often be a jazz set. I know that S8-N ( mp3.com/mofocult ) on the board here is using something like 16's but I don't know where the hell he gets em. The biggest problem is usually that 6th string, and you might make your own custom set using a high bass string.

If you move up to big strings like that you'll definately need to have the guitar setup professionally and most likely you'll have to have the nut filed a bit. Even then the thing just might not be able to handle them very well. I put a set of 13's on my old ibanez and tuned down to a C, but the guitar didn't hold them well enough for it to be very playable.

If you're already using beefy strings and you've got a string buzz problem, then the regular solutions apply...e.g. action, neck bow, fret height, finger strength...

Slackmaster 2000

[Hard2Hear]

I said tension, I means turns. ha ha
Also, I didn't realize you were asking about Ernie Ball Strings, I was thinking the EB/MM guitars.

Still, Why don't you just buy a 7 string set and leave off the high E string. Have a new nut cut and raise your saddles.

What kind of a guitar are you doing this to anyways?

H2H

[heretic4u]

my guitar is the evo-special made by dean

[Queue]

Isn't B# actually C? (Homer Simpson's Barbershop Quartet was named the Be Sharps, I think...)

I've got some things tuned down to C#, and that's pretty low, 3 semitones down from E.

If your guitar has a tremolo, I'd recommend against making any changes yourself. If it has a Floyd Rose type (floating) tremolo, you DEFINITELY should not do it yourself.

You can probably do it, but turning back will be a bitch. As stated above, you need larger strings to keep the tension higher at lower tunings. You can get custom sets through most dealers.

Larger strings cascades the following chain of events and modifications. You must accomodate for the larger strings at both the nut (on the headstock where the strings meet the fretboard) and at the bridge/saddle (on the guitar body at the other end of the strings, past the pickups). The slots on the nut will need to be widened, NOT DEEPENED. The bridge saddles may or may not need to be widened depending on your guitar. The neck will need some more tension to compensate for the extra strings, and if you have a tremolo, it will probably need more or tighter springs. Then you'll have to reset the intonation. This involves fine tuning the string length so that fretted notes are correct pitch, by adjusting the bridge saddles toward or away from the nut.

If you do not like things, changing back will mean replacing the modified nut and saddles.

This page may help you understand some of the concepts, it isn't exactly what you are doing, but is very similar.

Basitar and Guitbass



My advice is to find a junker with a fixed bridge (not a tremolo)and experiment, or if you have the bucks, get one of those previously mentioned guitars that is made for lower tunings.

Queue

[Hard2Hear]

ohmygosh!

queue, youre exactly right!! I totally missed what was being typed (I need to read things more thoroughly). My friends make fun of there being no B sharp all the time!! Oh, they would have a day with me over this if they knew!!


H2H

[toyL]

ok, this won't get ya to B#--whatever the hell you're talking about--cause b#is plain ol' C, but try this tuning--CGCGCD...
wide range (if you bend well), thick crunch, easy to find chords....
try hitting any 3 strings on any fret and see what happens....it takes a subtle approach with both hands because their is much less tension in the strings, but a subtle approach also allows for speed....try some pull offs on the 2d, 3d & 4th strings from the 3d to 2d frets, then open....now you know enough to be dangerous and impress the pretty panties...

[teknomike]

Actually, a B# (or a Cflat) can exist in the realm of microtonality.

Check this link out for the theory:

http://www.guitarsite.com/newsletters/010101/14.shtml

It's pretty interesting, although a tad obtuse....

Then go to Lucytuning for the practical application:

http://www.ilhawaii.net/~lucy/

Have fun,

mike

[Queue]

teknomike,

You now must change your nickname to technicalmike.

That's some pretty involved s&*+ there. I'll have to read it when I have some more time. Somehow I doubt that was what heretic was talking about...

Queue

[teknomike]

Queue,
Yeah, I know, but it sure takes the thread off on a whole new tangent, don't it....

Maybe we should start a new one on microtonality...but then I'm sure we'd get into a mud slinging match about importing foreign scales...

mike

[Sangram]

While crossing the road, if you don't C#, you're likely to Bb.

Borrowed off Wholenote...

Sang

[OneLouder]

I asked a friend of mine who knows a helluva lot more about music theory than i do about this whole B# business and she reckoned that C is sometimes written as B# in some instances where a part gets transposed to certain keys from other keys. She didnt know why just knew it happened. And that you actually just play a C not a mysterious B#

who knows?

who really even cares?

[Tom Hicks]

Spell the notes in the key of C # major counting back...
C#- B#- A# - G#...

When two notes have the same pitch but differing names, that is called "inharmonic".The convention is to not use the same nate name twice in a row,e.g.;
in E flat Phrygian counting up you wouldn't say "E flat - E - F#..." but rather "E flat - F flat - G flat ...",just so you don't get confused.
Rather arcane,but it helps to keep your place.The convention depends on whether you are ascending or descending,so the SAME SCALE may actually be written or spoken DIFFERENTLY.
I hope that isn't too obscure.

Tom

[toyL]

very astute observation teknomike....in western civilization, however, our musical forefathers decided that there were twelve fundamental tones that were pleasing to the ear...upon that they built sharps, flats, minors, major sevenths, minor sevenths, etc...starting with twelve pleasing tones they directly created a way to graphically express not only the fundamental tones but many variations...these variations essentially represent the harmoinc values--those tones either higher or lower, however slightly, than the fundamental tones they felt were pleasing to the ear--the ElectroVoice PA Bible is a must read for all musicians..... other cultures set out at the onset with entirely differently approaches....musicians in India, for example, saw fit to recognize well over a hundred "fundamental" tones which, for whatever reason, they felt were pleasing to ear....starting with over a hundred "fundamental" tones as the foundation for musical expression, it is easy to see that Indian music is by far the hardest to learn and master--ever tried to play a sitar?....with our cultural differences our ears are more apt to lose the melodies and lines and perceive mostly noise....exactly how this came to pass leaves us with the chicken/egg question--did they stat with over a hundre "pleasing" tone because they actually perceived them as such?..or did they come up with them because of the nature or "limitations" of the instruments being played?....at any rate, given the structure/nature/limitations of our instruments and sound reinforcemnts, and given the limitations of the human ear, "micro-tunings" would seem to be more the domain of dogs, whales, dolphins, or perhaps bats, or any other creature that "perceives" sound waves in a way considerably different from the way the human ear perceives sound waves....of course, most of this is theory....

[Queue]

This thread has evolved from "How can I detune my guitar to sound like ____insert band name here____?" to an intellectual dissertation on world music theory....

whew!!

Queue

[tubedude]

The forefather you mention was Pathagorus, probably not spelled right. The pathagorian scale should sound familiar.
The idea Pathagorus had back in those days (many many days ago) was that certain notes played together would condemn your soul to hell just by playing them. No shit. The catholic church backed him on this, and forbid any of the forbidden notes/chords to be played. Not only could you be condemned to hell, but they would execute you for playing them. The entire system that our music is based on is based entirely on math. Pathagorus wasn't even a musician. As a matter of fact, no one that was smart in those days WAS a musician. All musisians were slaves and poverty stricken, and a man of class wouldn't be caught dead playing an instrument or writing music because that was what slaves did. Not people of GOOD blood. The catholic church was so insistent that they would only allow what was known as plainchant... Chanting one note at a time, or monophonic.
If someone was going nuts, say, breaking shit in the city square, they would assume that that person had heard a bad chord and was possesed, and they would "cure" him by playing proper music for him. If that didn't work, kill the fucker. Funny, huh?
Another note... Pathagorus truly had nothing to do with music or really any knowledge of it, only of math. The math for our system worked out in a way as to NOT condemn our souls to hell for all eternity, so that was the system that came about. Pretty sad that our system wasn't even developed by a musician. As a matter of comparisons... check out Indian music. Its based on a 40 note scale instead of 12. ( I think 40) To us, it sounds way out of whack and out of tune. Thats because we're used to having 12 notes, A to A, and nothing in between. They have 40 possibilities between each octave. Crazy shit.
This is a tad off topic, but thought I'd share it here!
Peace,
Paul

[darrin_h2000]

Get a 5 string, or one of those schecter 4 strings that use a low b and no high e. Active pickups are nice for picking up the extra low notes without rumble that alot of non actives sometimes have playing a low e.

[darrin_h2000]

It was the Lydion scale with the sharped 4ths that would make your soul burn. Paganini was belived to be the devil himself because he loved to use this scale and composed impossible to play violin music.

I like the gregorian chants in this scale, like the ones heard in the film Children of the Corn. they will give you chills.