My G string

[Krystof01]

That got your attention; if your reading this.

OK, on all my guitars the E string (thin one) brakes first; thats logical, yes?

But what I don't get is why my G string on all of my guitars is the first to go out of tune and quite dramatically at that. Is there a logical explanation to this? My guitars are all properly innotated and set-up correctly (I hope/think). And I wouldn't say it's anything to do with the useage of the G string, though obviously bending this string fucks the tuning around more than just playing it 'straight' (i.e. not bending the string). Would it make much of a difference for the G string to be wound as opposed to unwound?

Any thoughts,
Thanks,
Krystof.

[Emeric]

Every single guitar I've owned has been this way. I always tune the G slightly flat in relation to D. Seems to get around it. Maybe there is some luthier on the BBS with an explanation. I'd be curious to know the reason for this as well.

[PapillonIrl]

I noticed that always happens to me too. Do you play a strat ? The G is always the one to go noticeably out. It could be a couple of things :

1 : The G is the one that get bent the most. ( It is for me anyway )

2 : The human ear is somehow more sensitive to the open G than other open strings ? ( I doubt this )

Any other suggestions ?

pAp.

[gibs]

G string for me too...not too bad on the tele, however...the strat, though, I'm messing with tuning on that string more....maybe I should go to higher gauge strings?....using 10's now, go to 11's and get over it?....although the trem on the strat might have something to do with it?....gibs

[Emeric]

Good, I'm not totally insane then. Thanks for bringing this topic up Krystof01. For awhile I thought I was totally losing my ability to hear anything in tune.

Gibs, I've also noticed on Tele's it doesn't seem to be as much of a problem. Tele's in general seem to have great intonation.. very forgiving instruments. But my guild does it, takamine does it, Lado, Washboard, Epiphony, they do it as well.

Maybe Buzz is right.

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/

Although, I think slightly out of tune guitars can add a bit.. I can't imagine a perfect world in good old rock and roll.

After reading Buzz's first paragraph, it makes me wonder what effect this would have on how music would or should or could sound. An electric guitar isn't a piano afterall. hmmm.. rambling.. I don't like this idea at all. Leave it alone and live with it!

I can just imagine, 2037 - Perfect intonation geeks versus the old school rocker's! scary thought.

"You don't have a buzz?" "no"... well, sorry your out of the band, can't tune around you".

[gibs]

Although, I think slightly out of tune guitars can add a bit.. I can't imagine a perfect world in good old rock and roll.

Can anyone imagine the Stones in tune?......they would have never sold a record.....I have tried for years to get a sorta Keith-ish rhythm thing going, and it's actually pretty hard to do....but the sound was/is there for that band.....I almost get it when I fine tune the e b and g by playing a "d" chord that sounds perfect, even though it doesn't match the original tuning of the e a and d strings......if that makes any sense.........gibs

[Emeric]

Keith had all sorts of guitars, all tuned differently from what I've read and heard. That in itself would lead to out of tune possiblities. But I know what you mean. It's tough to play like anyone else convincingly. I use to really hate the Stones, but got into them a lot over the past 4 or 5 years. Like anything else, it's the song that matters, not whether the guitar is perfectly in tune, or whether the snare sounds like a shotgun.

So few posts and the topic is already off the mark!

But, since is already. The beatles were also off the mark on quite a few of their guitar tunings and backup vocals, etc. But, what's the overriding factor? A damn good song.

It sucks being a musician though. You over-appreciate, over-analyze everything to death. To the point that everything or anything you listen to is just an irritant.

Like that damn G string.

[pchorman]

Being the largest diameter of the unwound strings, the G-string when new takes a little more tension to "bend" into the groove in the saddle. Once it has been bent to conform to that joint, the opposite starts to happen when you flex and relax the string; that is, you flex it hard and it bends again (or even kinks ever so slightly) at the saddle, reconforming at a new position along the string length (slightly aft of the original friction point). When you let up and relax the string, it doesn't want to go back as easily to its original position because it has this minute kink in it, depending on your guitar. The lighter strings being more slinky just give better, and slide more freely at the saddle groove.

Look at it another way: which of the unwound strings (which are the ones that get the most flexure) is the LEAST likely to slip through the tuning peg hole when stringing up your axe? For the same reason the G-string is the least likely to slip there, it is the least likely to slip back a minute distance over the saddle once you've stretched the living shit out of it with a hard bend and then relax it. Thus, it "settles" in a new position at the saddle groove.

[Cyrokk]

This must be a common, yet strangely unspoken, problem.. The first thing I've noticed when comparing string guages is the different feel of G string. It's as if the manufacturer spent most of their research time trying to build a better G string.

When talking about tuning, most instruments are not perfectly in tune. It seems most noticeable on guitar because of all instruments it has the most notes and chords that can be played in different positions and fingerings. For example, brass instruments-like tuba or baritone- have one or two valve combinations that can play the same note. If the instrument is "tuned", the alternate fingering will not be in tune. And if you tune to the alternate fingering, the instruments home fingerings will be all messed up. Because of this, the performer has to slightly adjust his playing when the need arises to play the alternate valves. Likewise, I try to practice the same approach when playing guitar.

Just a few years ago, Steve Vai had mentioned a particular guitar manufacturer had made a new guitar that fixed the tuning discrepancy- a perfectly tuned guitar. I wonder what became of it..

Cy

[Blue Bear Sound]

Interesting topic... I have the same problem on all my guitars too - except it doesn't seem as noticeable on my Godin.

A while ago, I started experimenting with different gauges and type of Gs to see if I could get around it, tried a wound one, which kinda worked but it changed the whole timbre of chording (triads, etc...) on the upper 3 strings.

Also, the volume was lower since the core string width was narrower than the normal unwound string. To get around the volume issue, I went up to a higher gauge of G, but then the whole feel (tension) was out of whack relative to the other strings.

In the end, since I couldn't find a way around the paradox of better feel contradicting timbre and string volume, I simply gave up, rationalizing that it is the nature of the beast - that is simply the way guitars are. Not to mention juggling with the individual string gauges impressed upon me that others much wiser than me had damn good reasons for creating the "standard" gauges that make up the current sets! (keeping the gauges balanced relative to volume levels, timbre and tone)

I'd still like to know why it IS that way though!


Bruce

[PapillonIrl]

I'm with pchorman...good theory, dude !

[c7sus]

Stupid question here. Why does your high E on every guitar break? I haven't broken a string in oh 25 years or so............

[Krystof01]

Stupid question here. Why does your high E on every guitar break? I haven't broken a string in oh 25 years or so............

Well you can't be playing properly then LOL; or is it that it's been sitting in it's box unplayed for 25 years.

I brake so many because I have quite an aggresive technique, and play quite a bit. I play mainly with 12 guage strings; if I played with 9's I'd need to get a guitar tech so he could replace them every 5 minutes. I can't understnad people who take so much care over their guitar(s) and don't want any signs of ware (BTW I'm not necessarily talking to you domC7sus4aug9th). Like a good pair of jeans, I only respect them properly once their worn in and belong to me.

[c7sus]

Are your strings breaking at the saddle or the tuner? Could be a burr at the tuner. I play acoustic mainly, and no, my Martins don't sit in thier cases. My D-35 is ready for it's second refret job since 1985. But I can't remember the last time I broke a string on my SG either, and I've had it since 1974. I play light guage on the SG, lights on the D-45 and mediums on the D-35. I knew a guy in SoCal that used to break D strings on his M-38 very often. They always broke at the saddle. THAT is aggresive playing!

BTW I just switched over to Elixers on my 35 and I'm very impressed with these strings. I've had them on for about 5 weeks now and they still sound very good and stay in tune very well too. I use Dunlop Tortex picks ranging from 1.14mm to 2mm depending on how aggresive I wanna be. Those 2mm picks are like using a stick!

[Cyrokk]

Does anyone here besides me give each new string a good stretch with your hands before putting it on the fretboard?

Cy

[Krystof01]

And the 3mm stubby dunlop picks are somehting else....wild.

Where do my strings break?; I'd probably have to say towards the bridge.

[OneLouder]

I broke the A string on my bass once. It was towards the bridge end of the string so i guess that was aggressive playing.... In all fairness a string change had been overdue but hey, whats a guy to do.

[c7sus]

Hey is it really true you guys would all be speaking German if not for the good old US of A pulling your chestnuts out of the fire in WW2?

What's even worse is you would all be stuck playing some crappy English brand instead of Strats and Les Pauls...... oh, the humanity!

[Krystof01]

We don't loose wars; unlike some. I guess if we were to start speaking German you'd copy us anyway since you don't seem to be able to come up with your own language; just remember what language you do speek/or attempt to.

What the fuck has this got to do with the guitars G string?

[pchorman]

Exactly how the hell did we end up discussing WWII from G-string tuning difficulties?

and didn't England and the US invade Normandy together, along with other countries, to kick Nazi ass? WTFO?

[Sonixx]

over the years i've had some guitars that have E and G-String problems and some that don't.

i had an SG Custom that had Hi-E-String problems. difficult to ever get the E-String in Tune. it just always sounded different and not good different.

i had an SG Standard that had G-String problems. the G-String was difficult to tune and it always sounded out of place.

i presently have a Epiphone Electric Hollow Body with a slight G-String problem, but plugged in it sounds Okay.

no string problems with my Takamine acoustic.

my Kramer Striker is an absolute dream to play and no string problems at all and it generally likes to be in tune even with a Kahler Whammy-Bar.

with my Melody Maker - no E or G String problems.

both the Kramer and the Melody Maker have Whammy Bars and Locking nuts.

go figure...

-kp-

[Krystof01]

Yeah; it seems that it varies from guitar to guitar but there is most certainly something that needs to be explained. I wonder who would be a good person to ask in a proffesional capacity; a physisist (sp) maybe?

[kristian]

"The thickness of the third string in a nylon set tends to limit its movement at the bridge and nut causing it to respond as if it were shorter than the other strings. Yamaha eliminates this common intonation problem with a special offset step cut into the saddle at the third string."

Im sure its similar with the metal strings.

[OneLouder]

If memory serves there are at least two occasions in history where america has joined a war at the last minute to look like heroes without all the effort......

and besides if we HAD been invaded by germany (bass wise at least) we'd all be playing Warwicks....

[kristian]

ok which american on this board brought up the stupid WW2 shite? lets see your battle scars, ? ooohh you are so brave! oh wow, you can say stupid things. impressive. and so we come to the point, why did you bring it up in the first place... unfortunately, if germany would have won we wouldnt be driving stupid american cars. BMW Audi and Mercedes!!

bugger off.