WAL-MARS has done it again.......

[Daddy-O]

WAL-MARS has once again put another local music shop out of business......A local shop here in Charlotte NC has been in business for over 35 years. For decades they were THE place to go for anything and everything for guitar, bass, drums, keyboards, recording and PA......not to mention expert repair staff. Everyone working in the place has a music background and is extremely knowledgable, honest, and helpful and many of them played in local bands.

So Mars Musics sets up shop here and undercuts all the independent local guys with discount prices that local shop owners can't compete with . BY THE WAY ALL OF YOU GUYS THAT SHOP AT WAL-MARS-------MOST OF THEIR MECHANDISE IS FACTORY SECONDS AND BLEMISHED PRODUCT THAT THEY BUY IN BULK. HAVE YOU NEVER NOTICED THE SWITCHES THAT DON"T WORK QUIET RIGHT, BUZZING STRINGS OR HOW PARTS JUST DON'T SEEM TO FIT TOGETHER TIGHT?
And where is dude who's job is to answer my questions with more knowledge of the product than I have and why is he never around to get that pack of strings I need from behind the counter? Why doesn't WAL-MARS carry those great picks I like and how come that same dude who's job it is to provide me with customer service never special orders the damn things like he said he would do ten times? Where is the quality second hand and vintage stuff and why is that discounted item you saw in their add suddenly out of stock when you get to the store and they can't give you a raincheck because it was a "speacial one time only sale"? WAL-MARS SUCKS and deep down you guys know its true SO START SUPPORTING YOUR LOCAL MUSIC STORE AGAIN!!!!!!!Yeah you can save 30 bucks on that guitar you want, but look at what you are loosing, or do some of you just not care?
Hey I'm all for a free market capitalist economy, but do we have to give our money to these huge chain store jerks?

[charger]

Personally, I've had a lot of problems with my local, down-to-earth owned music stores too. In fact, if a big chain music store moived into Santa Cruz, you can bet your ass the small stores would shape up quick... that's what happened with local the coffee shops and bookstores here, they all improved things a lot after the big chains moved in, inorder to keep customers.
I get so much attitude from the "local" music stores here. I don't know how many times the people at one local store in downtown Santa Cruz (and it's the only one, so if you've ever been here you know who I mean) have looked at me like I was an absolute idiot and an utter failure when I asked even routine questions.

On top of that, all their gear is far too expensive, an average of 15% higher than you can get it at a big store, and they're always so pushy about selling me more expensive crap than I want. Special orders never seem to come through either, and their repair department is abyssmal. If I go in and ask to check out a Tele or Strat, I guarantee someone will try to sell me a Parker Fly. If I want to check out a keyboard, the resident keyboard whiz says, "hey, lemme show you something" and proceeds to solo and rip for like 20 minutes, while I slowly fall asleep. I'm starting to appreciate the absolute lack of customer service I get from Guitar Center nowadays.

[Hard2Hear]

I hate local shops. More than once they have tried to charge me LIST PRICE for stuff they have. I know some people don't know any better, and pay these crazy prices.

Mars and GC aren't swindeling seconds, either. All Gibsons and Epi's are STAMPED "Second" if they are, and Fender has no "factory second" items that they release from theor factories. All of those are destroyed. These are verifiable facts.

If it saves me money, that's all I really care about. If a smaller shop thinks they can sell it to someone else at list price, good riddance.

H2H

[Hard2Hear]

p.s. it wasn't $30, but $1000 I saved on a Gibson Les Paul Classic buying it from a chain rather than a "local" shop. Yes, money does matter to me.

H2H

[Gidge]

Money matters to me ALOT...if the local shops cant come really close to the big guys prices, theres nothing I can do for them.....

[Emeric]

I agree with you Daddy-O 100%

Fuck the chain stores. The price difference is not that great. $10-$50 at most.

The people who own small stores tend to know what they are talking about. Their livelyhood depends on it.

What they know doesn't matter though I suppose, the 12 year old kid buying his first guitar... who is it... salesperson #11... Who cares.

If you want, buy everything 'on-line', or at chains... go for it. Your cutting your own throat. Unless no one even gives a fuck about local economy.. probably not. It's a small world after....all.

[c7sus]

Yeah....... be sure to go to your local small-time music store and ask for Chinese mics and Mexican Strats. That will provide a huge boost to the local economy.

[c7sus]

Get some Hosa cables too while you're there. And be sure and ask about Behringer products, and OnStage stands....... oh, and tell the guy there that the Martins and Taylors and Gibsons are too damned expensive. Ask him why he doesn't have some Takemines or Mitchells.

This whole topic is too fucked up and ironic for mere words.

[Emeric]

Somehow I knew you would wander in here C7.

My point of view is much much different than yours.....

Although, they do collide at times.

Dont import anything!!! it's bad for the LOCAL economy. Not quite C7.

[c7sus]

Just for the record, I don't wander, I saunter!

For the record, I've missed more work this year than at anytime in the last 10 years; over four months and counting. I got laid off the FIRST time this year a mere three hours after Dubya was inaugurated. Coincidence? Consider that something like 100 BILLION dollars worth of stock valuation has been lost in the Puget Sound region and it becomes very clear why contruction is slow. Corporate capital spending is at an 8 year low. There's just a whole lot less monopoly money out there to play with. IF I could travel without threats of custody bullshit from the ex-gash I could be working within a few days in the midwest or east coast. Cie la vie.

What gets me is that every swinging dick economist says all our hopes are pinned to Joe Sixpack consumer! This is the same stupid guy that wants to shop WalMart and buy all the Chinese shit that will fit into his ratwagon. We are certainly doomed!

[Buck62]

I almost agree with C7.
Bush Jr. is waaaaaay too nicey-nice and liberal these days.
What we need is an extreme right-wing nut to jump start this economy!

Democrats and unions.... huh, what a joke!

I've been working for 3 years without a contract!

That's right... no raises, no increase in benefits... nothing!
We can't even go on strike, because it's "agaist the law".

Our city council is 98 percent DEMOCRATIC, and they've screwed us at every turn. They keep dumping hundreds of millions into "beautification projects" and stealing businesses like Boeing from Seattle, but they swear they have no money to give the hard-working policemen.

The price of everything is going up, but my paycheck is stagnant... thanx to Democrats and our union... which tried to sell us out with a totally shitty contract, in which we gave up everything!

I used to believe in unions, but after being a member of the IBEW, the Teamsters, and the FOP... and being "sold out" by all three, I'm done waving the union banner. They're all self-serving backstabbers.

BTW, I buy wherever the price is the lowest for my gear.
Democrats and unions have forced me to do so.

[Gidge]

Just gotta bring politics into this....C7, you of all people know our econony was slowing BEFORE Bush took office.....people have been buying foreign produced products for years....hey, they gotta eat too.....Im sure lots of people in the USA have jobs manufacturing products that are shipped elsewhere to balance it all out.....

[memphissound]

mi dos centavos...

The idea of lumping production, wholesale, and retail in to one group just doesn't work. Many local retailers have been making a living for generations selling foriegn merchandise (e.g. local jewlery stores selling China patterns from Europe). So the arguement that buying a Yamaha mixer will destroy the entire economy is weak. The only way that that holds water is if you live in Meridian, MS and don't buy a Peavey mixer from a Meridian retailer, and that's the only place that Peavey sells anything. If the people that live in Meridian don't make money then they can't support Meridian retailers. However, if people all over the world don't buy Peavey, then Peavey shuts down, and then Meridian shuts down.

Capitalism makes you work. You either change (grow, expand, improve), or die. The economies of scale have been known for decades (centuries?) and somebody is going to take advantage of it. I really feel bad for the local retailers that don't, or can't, keep up. I worked for a local TV and appliance dealer for a couple of years. They don't exist any more and that's too bad because they were nice, they knew the products, they did repairs in-house, and could arrange home delivery (and pick-up of repairs) at the drop of a hat. But they couldn't keep up with the huge discounts that stores like Wal-mart, and Circuit City get and so decided that they would close shop and do something else. They examined the options, open more stores?, carry high-end equipment as opposed to Panasonics?, carry more diverse items?. They just decided that it was more trouble than it was worth, the risk was too great, they were already getting nearer retirement age (early 60's), and he had just undergone heart surgery. He is now an assistant manager at a locally owned parts retailer of electircal, plumbing, and mechanical items.

My point is really simple. There is a global economy and you will compete in it sooner or later. Retailers that are sitting on their hands are doomed to close. You have to keep evolving.

[Pirateking]

Back to Mars...my big beef with them is customer service. I was there yesterday and I wanted to try something out in the guitar dept. Nothing crazy, just a pedal. I look around, there is no one in the guitar dept. at all to help. So I go up to the cash register, where there were 4 guys hanging out doing nothing. There was no one checking out at all. I ask for help, and the guy says, "It's gonna be about 5 minutes before I can get over there." What the f? Somehow the one guy at the local used guitar store is always available no matter how many people are in there, but Mars, with 3,000 "guitar specialists" can't get one loser over to help me try out a pedal. I think it's obvious that most of their employees don't really have much respect for the company, which is a bad sign to me.

[c7sus]

Nobody said buying a Yamaha mixer ruins the entire economy. Buying more goods than you sell does. Ever hear of the trade deficit? The idea that there are "free" markets anywhere, and especially in the US is a joke. Just watch any talking head on TV and they will all say that the consumer is the key to avoiding recession. Dubya is hoping you will continue to spend money like there's no tomorrow and save him from the fate of his father. THAT is why he wants the dollar to remain strong- to increase your purchasing power of foriegn-made goods.

Keep buying foriegn shit. But do me a favor every time you do and try to imagine what kind of work your kids will be doing 20 years from now and what kind of standard of living they will have to look forward to when we become a net exporter of raw materials and a net importer of finished consumer products. If you figure it out you will see that in 20 years the only job left will be answering the phone for SamAsh for about 5 bucks an hour and telling some irate clown from the high plains that you really don't give a rat's ass about his order or anybody elses. "You want customer service? Here, service this!"

[Wallycleaver]

I get 95% of my stuff local. At first you pay a little more but since I know the people and I've spent $$$$$ I get better deals than majors. The only thing I go to chain stores for is closeout and to test out products. The thing that is the best is the way they treat me. They do all adjustments and minor repairs for all of my guitars for free, I can take home and demo anything that I want, I get calls when cool stuff comes in that I may want/need. Gu

[Cyrokk]

Some things about Mars (and possibly the other major retailers).

They do NOT honor price quotes from online retailers.

Don't expect a prompt email response from them, and do not expect the answer to be correct either.

Their advertisements on the radio do not necessarily apply to all stores. Case in point: A couple of weeks ago, Mars ran an ad in central Florida for a deferred payment sale. This sale was only valid at the Tampa store, and not both locations in the general area. I wasted $8 in tolls and much of a Sunday figuring this out.

Try calling them if you have a question. Depending on who you talk to, the margin of stupidity may be slightly smaller.

Cy

[memphissound]

and I didn't mean to imply that there was a "free" market in any country. I'm not that naive. But the reallity is that we do have to deal with low price foriegn products that are sometimes made with decent quality. You have to compete. And the idea that you can continue to operate a music equipment store (or other commercial endevor) like you did in the 1950's will not fly. You have to evolve. Transportation, communications, and technology improvements make it necessary to keep moving.

The small local retailers have an advantage if they will just use it. Speed. It doesn't take near as long for a local entity to change its approach as it does a nation-wide corporation. Be the insitgator. I would suggest that a small retailer set up a demo recording studio. They can get equipment at wholesale prices, use the floorspace as a showroom during the day, and as an affordable demo studio after-hours. A corporate chain would take at least a year to get everything OK'ed by all of the upper muckity-mucks, and another year to find somebody qualified to staff it, and then all of the legal rights of who gets what credit. By then the local guys have built a solid reputation and are providing a service that enhances what they already have going. And it's not something that the big-boys can discount in volume pricing.

[memphissound]

and I didn't mean to imply that there was a "free" market in any country. I'm not that naive. But the reallity is that we do have to deal with low price foriegn products that are sometimes made with decent quality. You have to compete. And the idea that you can continue to operate a music equipment store (or other commercial endevor) like you did in the 1950's will not fly. You have to evolve. Transportation, communications, and technology improvements make it necessary to keep moving.

The small local retailers have an advantage if they will just use it. Speed. It doesn't take near as long for a local entity to change its approach as it does a nation-wide corporation. Be the insitgator. I would suggest that a small retailer set up a demo recording studio. They can get equipment at wholesale prices, use the floorspace as a showroom during the day, and as an affordable demo studio after-hours. A corporate chain would take at least a year to get everything OK'ed by all of the upper muckity-mucks, and another year to find somebody qualified to staff it, and then all of the legal rights of who gets what credit. By then the local guys have built a solid reputation and are providing a service that enhances what they already have going. And it's not something that the big-boys can discount in volume pricing.

And as far as my kid's job in 20 years is concerned... Well, that could be a problem. We have moved to a service industry. Unfortunately we're not very good at it. Edward Demings message in "Out of the Crisis" has just not caught on. Management at most companies want their employees to behave in that manner, but the idealogical change necessary in upper managment is a spoonful of bad medicine for most. I would love to buy American (I drive a Dodge, play a USA Strat and Gibson WM00). But I have to get the most for MY money. If I can justify the higher price of an American made product I'll get it. But I can't afford 50% extra cost to make up for the poor production practices in many US manufacturers.

Oh, well. Raise the flag and salute. I don't have any answers. And besides...they keep changing the questions.

[hixmix]

What I like about Guitar Center, Sam Ash and the big chains, is that when you go there, the discount prices are marked clearly on almost all items. I like seeing the discount prices clearly marked, up front, so I can plan my own buying strategy. You gotta give 'em credit for that. In most cases there is even room for bargaining on the discount prices.

When I go into the smaller local music stores, a few items on special might be marked with a discount price, but almost invariably the majority of the inventory is marked list price, if marked at all. I hate having to ask some condescending salesman what the "real" price is on a bunch of different instruments. Especially since I already have a pretty good idea what the "real" price should be. It's kind of like an intimidation tactic to make the buyer feel like he's a pain in the ass if he asks to many questions about the "real" price. It makes me very uncomfortable and puts me at a disadvantage as a buyer.

It also makes me wonder how many have been suckered into paying list or close to list price.

[c7sus]

Living wages aren't "poor production practices." When you buy goods made in third world countries you are subsidizing the loss of jobs here in the US. It's really that simple. US-made products cost more because we have a higher standard-of-living then most foreign nations. Therefore the wages to produce those goods are higher, and so is unit price. But think about what you are paying for. American workers have proven to be among the most hard-working and productive workers in the world, pound for pound. When you buy American produced products, hopefully you are helping to pay a living wage to the guy that made it. Hopefully, his family has health insurance provided by his employer, so when his kid gets sick he doesn't have to go to the County Hospital and then file bankruptcy because he can't pay the bill. Maybe some portion of his earnings go into a retirement fund so he won't be relying soley on government aid when he is too old to work.

Everybody is going to buy foreign-made goods. It is unavoidable. But before you spend take some time to think about where that dollar is really going to wind up.

[getuhgrip]

Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. Makes a difference on how you're percieved.

That's the first time you've made that argument eloquently rather than abrassively. Easier to read without thinking you're ready to blow sumthin up!

You're right, but you know what trade commission and friends with their pricks in their pockets response would be to declining imports.... Greenspan would commit suicide, I'd be eating macaroni and cheese, and you'ld be wishing those 25%ers at MBNA would call you back.
You've got a handle on the problem and it's consequences, but how do you institute moderation in a capitalist society that spends a million dollars a second? Scare tactics won't work when the fed insists everything's peachy.

BTW - Off the subject, but do ya still get unemployment as long as you're on the board?

[c7sus]

Actually my unemployment claim ran out last week. If I don't go to work tomorrow (which seems highly unlikely) then this week is my waiting week. But my new claim opens at $496 a week.

[memphissound]

Hey, C7.

I know it's not the best of situations, but it is a bit of reallity that we're having to deal with. I've been in production for years, until this past March. And the American worker is top-notch. I'm talking about American managment structures. I've seen, and been the victim of them myself. (I just came off of unemployment in March having been let go the Monday before Christmas. What a Christmas bonus!) Our economy has been good, but it's mostly artificially held there.

I'm just looking at it from Getuh's points. I posted some comments on the Peavey Corporation on a BBS recently and I think it was at HomeRecording, but it might have been at www.harmony-central.com, I don't remember. I have some unique insights into that particular company and it's typical of a lot of American manufacturers.

Good luck in the job search. If you want to look in the Memphis area leave me a private message and I'll put you in touch with some top recruiters here. God bless.

Peace <><

[Hard2Hear]

Hey C7-

I sold off all of my Korean made guitars (except for 1 DeArmond) so that all I have now is North American built guitars (I include Canada and Mexico in this). Being where I am now in my career, I will only be buying American guitars any time in the future.

I just thought I'd share that with you.

H2H