Vocal Processors and hittin' the high notes

[getuhgrip]

In an attmpt to get some back up harmonies on my recordings, I'm considering one of the digital vocal pocessors. I haven't used one or heard one being used, and I'm wondering what the sound quality is like. Also, is it possible to set a low level on the "master" and produce only a raised octave signal in real time? I guess what I mean is: can I sing at an octave that's comfortable (possible) for me, and isolate a signal that's up in the Steve Perry or Lou Graham range?
Can I sound like three black chicks (please don't hit me on political correctness; no harm intended ) doing back up?
Any models better than others?

Thanks, Rick

[langleyt]

Hey Rick, I'm sorry I don't have an intelligent answer to that question...cause I don't have an answer at all. But, I would like an answer to that very same question.? Also, while we are talking about vocal processors, does anyone have an opinion on the Alesis 3630 Compressor Gate? Or would it be better to get a couple of Nano Compressors?

[Blue Bear Sound]

LT...

Neither compressor is worth sh*t... unless you need an on-board gate, get yourself a couple of RNCs (manufactured by FMR Audio http://www.fmraudio.com). You can get them at Mercenary audio - http://www.mercenary.com.

They are up there with compressors that cost much much more (seriously, not hype.) Incidently, neither the RNC nor the Alesis "comps" you mentioned are vocal processors - they are simply compressors.


getuhgrip.....

Sorry dude, not much help - I haven't jumped on the vocal processor bandwagon yet.

Bruce

[getuhgrip]

Bruce, you said sh*t!

[Blue Bear Sound]

Ha........ you said "heavens"!!!!!!!!!!

[chessparov]

Hey Bruce, my nanocompressor will whip your RNC anyday! (Just kidding!) Seriously, I wondered since I own one,
would this compressor be of any more use if it was used only for gentle compression like 2:1 or less, and whether the
soft/hard knee or peak/rms features might help at all. I normally use the Presonus Blue Max otherwise.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Yes, it will be excellent in that context!

And no, the nanocompressor can be barely be called a compressor, much less be competition for an RNC!!! Totally different calibre of gear!!!


Bruce

[chessparov]

Thanks Bruce!

[mikeh]

I can't speak for every processor that's out there but the unit I use (Digitech Vocalist) is designed more for MIDI applications. I record chord MIDI chord changes into Cakewalk - and send the MIDI data to the Vocalist. The Vocalist will assign harmonies based on the MIDI chords it receives. I can also play specific notes (harmony lines) and the Vocalist harmony notes will match those notes. With this unit I can assign 5 harmony voices (above and/or below the lead vocal).

Bottom line - the processed vocals sound like processed vocals. Processed harmonies are not an "end all solution" nothing beats good singers. You need to keep the harmonies low in the mix - if they are too loud in the mix, you can tell they are processed (in particular in the higher range - can you say "chipmonks"). What works best for me is to lay some "live" harmonies in with the processed sounds to create a fuller, more real sound. If the Vocalist harmonies are alreading in the mix it is easier for me to "double" the parts and hit my harmony notes more accurately.

I actually had the original Vocalist (about 10-12 years ago), wasn't happy and got rid of it. Thought I would try again and bought the newer rack mount about 2 years ago. Still not real happy. I won't say vocal processors are "worthless" - but I can't strongly recommend one.

[LongWaveStudio]

Try a TC helicon voice prism. it's great. i use it very quietly to thicken up backing vocals. however, you can sing an octave lower and raise it, but it's gonna sound like you have auto tune on your voice. to get thebest vocal processor sound, you're gonna have to spend decent money and get an eventide. the harmonies on it are incredible, takes a bit of time to program , but its very tight when tracking notes.

TC helicon is about £450
Eventide, depends what model you get, about £2000+

[Cyrokk]

umm.. well if my experience with the pitched harmony effects of the Alesis microverb 4 can be counted.. You could probably get away with fooling someone into thinking you have backup singers but you would have to keep the mix very low... otherwise like mikeh said.. you would get that chipmonk sound.. Also you'd want to make sure you are singing dead on: if you are flat.. then so is the effect.. and you would also want to make sure that any delay or reverb attached to the effect doesn't flatten or raise the pitch...

You can however completely mask your voice and sound like someone else.. this works well for any spoken word effects in your songs.. I did a track where I made myself sound like a sexy female... almost got a little too excited when I heard the playback..

I think next time I the effect I'll set it for the deep satan voice...

Cy

[LongWaveStudio]

I think the original poster wanted a unit where he could get a solid octave up. I would invest in the Helicon from TC. you get an AMAZING pre-amp to start with. i know i guy who bypass's his O1v preamps and uses it, so they're as good as, kinda thing. you get auto tune in it, and loads of great harmoning tools. runs digital in and out asfar as i can remember, cant see theback right now. it has reverbs and stuff i think, havent used that side of it. ill go check.

there's also the Digitech Vocalist Studio. not just the vocalist, check out the Vocalist Studio.

Speaking of Harmonizers, I bought the Korg iH harmonizer a long time ago. since then ive lost all manuals for it. i need to know....how the hell do you change the harmosing pitch from C?! and how does the vocoder work!

[getuhgrip]

The Digitech Performer is one that I thought I might try. Good reviews on gender capabilities. I'll do some research on the Alesis and TC units.
Thanks guys.

[electricbeats]

hold on for a second, ever coniddered buying an eventide ?? These are the boxes to go for. They are a littlebit more expensive than others but they are classics. Eventide invented harmonizing, "the intelligent pitchshifting, according to scales and notes", whenever I need to do something like that I try to get hold of one. (if I don't have mine with me)
They are sophisticated machhines, capable of nearly everything, and amongst the current models DSP7000 and ORVILLE they just launched their new product in the lower price segment, the ECLIPSE - look at www.eventide.com
its a 1U box 24bit/96k virtual dual DSP, looks beautiful and sounds awesome.
The only thing as usual is the price: about 2k.

Older units like the H3000 series you can get relatively cheap at e-bay or, much better www.digibid.com. It still would cost you more than an alesis but a unit thats a classic like the eventide 3000 you will always be able to sell.

my point is that with spending a little more money you can buy (even 2nd hand) a box that will make you happy for the next 15years too. And with it you get auto pitch correction,almost any kind of guitar effect you can think of,
nice reverbs, still loved for their smooth sound(3000), or (eclipse) simply killer.

think this over

and have fun

klaus

[electricbeats]

by the way, an octave is an awful lot, even for state of the art shifing algorithms, even to get a 5th up is a hell of a job unless you don't mind to sound like donald duck.

[LongWaveStudio]

yeah, i suggested eventide before. im assuming it's out of theperson's price range though, they're a bit pricey.

[electricbeats]

just looked at digibid, used 3000 go from about 900 to 1900
theres been quite a few recently, what does a helicon go for ?

[LongWaveStudio]

Helicon new is about £450-500.
i might be selling an Eventide Orville if anyone's interested? hardly used.mail me if interested.

[PRiZ]

what do you have to say about the presonus vxp voice processor...This doesn't have anywhere to plug a mic into does it?

[getuhgrip]

Ebeats, that Eclipse is a little pricey for me. That C3500 is a sexy thing, insn't it? Also out of my budget. I'm watching a Helicon that's at $700 right now, but I won't be surprised to see it go well over $800. I'm trying to get some more info on it to see how far past $750 I want to chase it.
I might cave in and try the Digitech VOX Studio.
Thanks for the input.

[getuhgrip]

what do you have to say about the presonus vxp voice processor...This doesn't have anywhere to plug a mic into does it?

Single channel preamp and processor. One (or two) XLR on rear panel. Saw on ebay this morning for $499.

[LongWaveStudio]

get the helicon, you wont regret it. it goes new for about £500, (around 860$).

it's an excellent unit, great for backing vocals, mix it in quietly and it gives a wicked thick texture, great for pop music. not only do you get a great vocal processor, (which doesn't just do harmonizing), you get an EXCELLENT preamp. i know one guy who runs a studio near me who bypasses all his O1V preamps and uses the Helicon's preamp. it's really really good. has 48v too.

get it, you wont let go of it!

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally posted by PRiZ
what do you have to say about the presonus vxp voice processor...This doesn't have anywhere to plug a mic into does it?

Priz - the VXP is a preamp.... with added features for handling vocals in particular. Vocals are normally recorded via __________? Hence, the VXP has a connection for a _________?

hmmm... reminds me of those grade-school stories - you know, the ones with the pictures instead of words!



Just yankin' your chain Priz!

Bruce

[LongWaveStudio]

you deserve a handshake, i was laughing so much bruce!

[getuhgrip]

Uh, wait a secon...I know this one.. I think...OH YEAH, I got it!

Vocals are recorded via (I am feelin' so smart right now!)of MY VOICE!
and so uh, or I mean hence, the thing has a connection for..foooor..uh, for..(damn, I had this a minute ago!) hence the thing has a connection for..for MY MOUTH?

Oh bullshit, it does not! Fricken Bruce guy's a spas!