Organization - patchbays and such.. opinions on my evil plan solicited

[OldGrover]

Ok, so I'm smoking along now, love the sound I'm getting (I need to get permission from the artists to post some stuff here) but I am starting to feel I've got too much chaos, that might be answerable by a patchbay.

I've got an original Mackie 1604 mixer, a delta-66 and I record and monitor guitar, keyboards (2 inputs), tape (stereo) and 3 mics for a total of 8 inputs. Obviously, I've only got 4 with the delta-66, but I generally only use 2 or 3 at a time. Unfortunately, those two or three changes a lot - guitar and 2 mics one time, piano and a mic or two the other.

As well, because it is also a rehearsal space, I want to be able to do things like monitor the piano, the mic and the tape all at the same time - preferably without using the computer.

I can do all this now - I'm hooked up as follows :

2 mics to the 5 & 6 inputs of the mixer, with direct outs to the delta 66 inputs 1 and 2. This means I use the preamp of the mixer and the faders to control volume, but otherwise it goes to the delta 66 and does not go to the main bus of the mixer.

All the other inputs of the mixer are muted, which sends the signal to the alt bus. The piano, tape and other mic are all connected to these inputs and the alt bus outputs to the delta 66 inputs 3/4.

The delta 66 outputs are hooked to the aux inputs of the mixer (as is the SB output). This means that the output of the computer is the only thing on the main bus, and the main fader controls do everything. The delta 66 inputs are generally fed right back to the outputs, using the delta 66 program, but when I use Cubase, I use the wavouts so I can hear the effects realtime.

What I am thinking.... please let me know if this makes sense...

Since inputs 1-8 are the only ones with direct outs, we'll use those for my outputs, uninterrupted (ie, signal goes out the output, but also to the bus). We'll set them on mute, so the signal is going to the alt bus (more on that later). This output feed goes to 8 patchbay connectors, the first 4 of which are normalled to the 4 delta 66 inputs (which are also on the patch panel, obviously)

(brain hurts)

The 4 line level inputs (2 piano, 2 tape) will be on the patch panel and normalled to the next 4 mixer inputs. Those mixer inputs would also be muted (set to alt bus)

The Alt bus mixer output (told you I'd get back to it) would be connected to 15/16 mixer inputs - which would NOT be set muted. These two mixer channels would control the monitoring that does not go through the computer. This would make monitoring independent of the setting on the delta 66 control panel, and indeed, of even whether the computer is on. You'd obviously only want to use one or the other, but having this ability would make life much easier to explain to the other users of the facility (mainly my fiancee, who is quite sharp, but not devoted to recording gear, just to music in general)

So by default, with nothing patched, I can hear all the sounds (assuming 15/16 is pushed up) and record mixer inputs 1-3 (mics) and 4 (guitar) all happy dappy. If I want to record the piano, for instance, I run two patch cords from them to two inputs, cutting out the normalized connection. and I get the two remaining mics and the piano.

Note the delta 66 outputs are still going to the main mixer bus (via the aux ins) and that I have room for another 4 inputs on the patchbay (corresponding to mixer inputs 5-8)

I *THINK* this should work. I've attached a text file description which might explain it better. I'm tempted to just get a behringer patchbay and try it ($100 CA is CHEAP) but I've heard bad stuff about sound bleeding in them. If I do this, I'll do it with a used soldered patchbay, probably. any recommendations?)

HELP!

[OldGrover]

Obviously, I forgot to attach the damned file...

[RWhite]

I think a patch bay is a great idea, I was looking at one awhile back. But personally I make use of the sub-outs on my mixer - you have 4 of them which matches up nicely with your 4 inputs. I know many people claim that sub-outs are too noisy. I say if they too noisy, buy a better mixer! At least give them a try.

I'm using a Studio32 (16x4x2) with a Gadget labs Wave 824 (8 in 8 out). Most of my recording is with done with (electronic) drums, bass, guitar, and a scratch vocal recorded on the first pass and then everything else dubed later. I have sub-outs 1-4 going into card inputs 1-4, with 4 channel direct outs going into the remaining inputs. I run drums and keyboards through the sub outs and usually run vocals, guitar, and bass through channel direct outs. But it depends on the specific track. With that setup I have not had to re-patch in quite awhile.

[OldGrover]

Yeah... that is more or less what I'm doing now, but with only 4 inputs and 8 possible sound sources I'm having to repatch fairly often.

Thanks for the comment, though

[OldGrover]

In case anyone is interested, I did exactly as described above with a Behringer Ultrapatch bay (Behringer haters can now say YUCK) and it works WONDERFULLY. It is BEAUTIFUL. SOOOOO convenient.

Nice.

I LIKE IT.

Me happy.

Of course, I'm sure I'd be happier if I used a soldered patchpanel, but this is REALLY NICE. It works REALLY well.

First recording session tonight - wish me luck

[RWhite]

Good Luck!

[OldGrover]

Thanks - I think it went well. *AND* I got permission from the artist to post the results, so at least one of the songs will end up in the mixing forum later tonight. WHEE!