need keyboard mixing tips

[Cheetah]

Anyone have any pointers for mixing keyboards with
heavy guitars? I'm having problems getting some pads
and piano sounds to set right in the mix.

Thank you.

[necromancing]

I've had some experience mixing keyboards with heavy guitar. I'm a guitar player and my vocalist and I went up to northern California to mix a couple of songs a few years ago.

The song was written with the guitar riff as the main part. The piano/keys we added later by the producer, to add color.

First off, does your keyboard part HAVE to be there or is it just to accent the riff? If it's accent, ditch it. My band is total unhappy with the producer's mix of that song, the paino is way to high in the mix and distracts from the overall song.

I better example of a good mix of piano and heavy guitar is the Black Crowes. The do it just right. Faith No More & Led Zeppelin are another ones. But those bands use more "retro" sounding keys, electric piano, mellotron, etc. If you're going for Whitesnake or Europe, then good luck. That stuff never sounded good.

So to finish, if the keyboard part is what drives the song, mix it higher, put the guitar more in background. If it's the guitar riff that powers the song, then mix it up, use the keyboard as accent. The two parts will never live in the same place in the same mix, without sounding lame.

Peace.

[Dolemite]

Originally posted by necromancing
If you're going for Whitesnake or Europe, then good luck. That stuff never sounded good.

Man, are you DISSIN' EUROPE?!?!?!

I pity the foo' that don't like Europe!

[Senor Cactus]

Hey, what's wrong with Europe? "Final Countdown" is a really cool song. The Detroit Pistons even used it as their theme song-- ya know, back when they were good.

The biggest problem I've run across in mixing keyboards and guitars is frequency clutter. Most of the time guitar parts and keyboard parts are on similar frequencies. This can make them really compete with each other and make them really hard to mix.

One way to get around this is to EQ them differently. If your guitars are really heavy and bassey, try EQing the keyboard using more treble frequencies. If your keyboard needs the power of those bass frequencies, try EQing your guitar with more treble and less bass.

Another idea is transposition. If your guitars and keyboards are fighting in the mix, try transposing one of them up or down an octave. This will separate them and allow you to mix them more easily.

If these don't work, you can always try panning. If you pan one to right and the other to left, that should separate them.

As for volume levels, that's up to you and what style you're going for.

[major240]

Cactus has the point I was going to make on frequency problems...especially when playing at the same time/same beat.
I'll also add that I try to play off the guitar...that is, alternate on the rhythm/beat. Not completly opposite, but the occasional, shall we say, counterpoint.
Pads are tough. If you have a crisp rhythm guitar going, I feel long, sustained chords will work behind. They work behind the leads, too (think slower moving Santana stuff). Once again, frequency range can be a problem. Move the keyboards or guitar up or down an octave (as previously suggested) and even take turns on that.