Compression/Limiting

[MrZekeMan]

I've read a lot of the posts on Comp./Lim. and I think I have a grasp of the benefits it provides.

I've also read the thread on the importance of trackin as hot a signal as possible.

This maybe a dumb question, but here goes anyway. I'm trying to understand the benefit of adding compression after the fact. I can understand adding it during tracking. You can get a hotter signal without overloading your top end, and causing distortion.

I can understand adding it afterward in order to bring up parts that are not loud enough. Is that the only advantage to compressing after the fact? Or is there some advantage to squashing it on the top too?

Zeke

[Roel]

you can add compression afterwards to get a less dynamic signal. To cut off peaks that would jump at you in the mix etc...

On drums you can use it to change the balance between the hit and the resonance of the kettle afterwards. This is by cutting of the peaks, or letting the peaks through cutting down the rest...
Can fatten up the kick...

Things like that... I don't have enough experience to explain the details. Just figuring these things out myself...

[lazyboy]

Just to add a thought to that:

It has been my experience that most of the things that jump out in a mix are better dealt with through cut eq than heavy compression. Usually there is a certain fairly narrow frequency range that will overload the signal (Ed calls these "nasties"). Even when compressed those frequencies will still sound shrill. The more I understand the interplay between frequency and dynamics, the more I'm apt to concentrate on eq.

I did my first 4 years of recording without a compressor. Now that I have one, I find that I don't use it very much. I mostly use it for bass guitar, though I'm thinking of buying a bass J-station or something like it, in which case I imagine I'll use it even less.

I am just figuring these things out too

[JuSumPilgrim]

I second that very strongly, Lazyboy. I also recorded for years without an outboard compressor and with almost no compression on the mixdown. I did volume and EQ adjustments manually on the waves and on the final mixdown. Now that I have an RNC and have become adept at using it in conjunction with cool edit I find myself going back to my old ways of EQ and manual volume adjusting to pull back transients.

[sjoko2]

One thing often forgotten ... compressors were invented to fix mistakes, and to push overall volume, in particular for radio.
Now its almost common practise to use compression on loads of things, as a matter of cause.
- Use compression by all means if you like what it does to the sound, if it helps you to achieve something you want to hear.
- If you like a high dynamic range, don't use - or don't use a lot of it.
- If you have a drummer who's slightly uneven in volume, by all means use a bit of compression.
- Don't forget to leave some room for mastering, where you will likely have some compression applied (so consider - how does it sound when you compress a mix which consists of track which have been compressed already?).

The better your microphone placement, the better you track, the better you mix, the less compression you will need, then its up to taste.

Personally, I'm no great fan of compressing for the hell of it, I use it carefully and sparingly, mainly for mastering. On top of that, there is only one stereo compressor I like to use, and that's friggin expensive.

[JuSumPilgrim]

Its not only mic placement which helps in getting a more consistent signal ... its also quality of mic. In general the shittier the mic the worse the off axis response. I have this AT 3525 which kinda mandates you use a straight jacket on singers or else you get this phased in and out sound when you dont have the gain turned way up. Bottom line: the better musician/singer you are the more you can control your own dynamics and the less, in general, you need to rely on compression.

[MrZekeMan]

Thanks for all the replies.

By mic placement do you guys mean primarily distance from source, or maybe axis?

I can see where I need improvement in this area. Of course I haven't had even a slightly decent room to record in since I got my machine in and started experimenting. The room sounds so bad I have to really get in close to the mic to get a decent sound. Maybe I can control dynamics better when I get a better sounding room.

Zeke

[sjoko2]

Totally correct. But personally I'd do many other things first before I'd resort to compressing vocals.

The pattern of a 3525 is somewhat tight - and designed to be like that. You will find that with a 'moving' singer you might get better results if you place them further away from the microphone, where the patter is broader.
This does not mean that it is a shitty mic, it a very decent one, designed for specific milking techniques.

You touched on something that many people unfortunately never look into closely before they purchase a microphone - what is the pattern and how does the pattern suit the use I have for the microphone.

[sjoko2]

Hey Zeke - a lot you can do for that, especially for vocals.
Listen to a demo I did a bit ago, which was recorded in a low ceiling square bedroom, with one wall mirror from left to right. No way possible could you get worse. http://www.mp3.com/uru listen to the song You Know.
In that case I set-up an array of 4 tube-traps (which are, by the way, extremely easy to make).
The easiest solution is to get 2 good long mic stands with booms. Extend them up to the max, with the boom centered on the stand at 90 degrees. Now get thick blankets, comforters is even better, and drape them over the booms. Place them in a V shape, with the mic in the point of the V. Now you will have virtually eliminated the room sound.

[JuSumPilgrim]

Youre right Sjoko. Thing is....with the AT 3525, with the gain turned up you dont get the same response with the singer 9-12 inches away as within 6 inches. The low mids and the mid mids (600- 1200) seem more scooped out. Things never sound right unless I boost that range especially around 1200. Also I dont think there ever was a vocal recorded with this mic that I did not have to boost 9-12db at 12k. That being said the low end produced by this mic is great and that makes it very useful.

[MrZekeMan]

sjoko2,

This is very helpful to me. And it is something I can do, as I have 3 old boom mic stands that I bought.

My acoustics might be even worse. I'm in a 40 ft. travel trailer. My first attempt was standing with my head almost touching the ceiling. I soon found that sitting with the mic in about the middle of the space was a vast improvement.

I hope to find a good room I can set up in (maybe even build one) soon. I've just been trying to learn my machine so far.

Wow, I had already downloaded the songs. Now I'm really impressed to find out they were done in less than ideal conditions.

What a rough life you live, having to spend your time working with the likes of her. Singing models. Dang.

Thanks,
Zeke

p.s. I just posted a new thread asking about the other end of the spectrum, capturing room sound. Any thoughts?

Thanks again

[sjoko2]

JuSum - you are right, it is not really a vocal mic.