E-22 tension arms

[FALKEN]

I am having a small issue with my E-22. When attempting to bias, the left channel was wavering at 10k tone. I knew this would not make for a good recording, and set out to figure out why this was happening, my first thought being a bent reel or a bad pack or something. after several hours of messing around I decided it was either that the tension arms were not positioned properly anymore, or the tape did not have enough tension. (when looking at the tape moving from the takeup reel to the left tension arm, at just the right reflective angle, you could see that the top end of the tape wasn't as taut as the bottom). I looked in my service manual for my E-16 and it says to set the tension on these you need a "tentelometer" which I don't have. So I decided to adjust the tension arms, which was a huge mistake.

I was able to acheive a more consistant level at 10k on the left channel, but not perfect. However, the rest of the machine is now all messed up. The machine uses the tension arms to sense how to move the reels and how hard...so now it does not rewind as fast, and sloowwwws to a halt, and also when you fast wind forward when it gets ti the end of the tape, instead of stopping it speeds up and goes beserk, damaging the tape and sending shreds everwhere. the slightest adjustment in the tension arm height has a dramatic effect on the FF, RW, and breaking mechanisms. In the "best" location for the tension arm roller, RW doesn't even work at all!

what a disaster, I am totally bummed.

[The Ghost of FM]

I have a T2 H15 UM Tentelometer that I'll gladly sell you but be warned, it will cost you more then your machine is worth!

Have you considered seeking out a repair shop that has one and getting them to calibrate your machine? I would, if I were you.

New, these meters go for $475 plus shipping and any applicable taxes.

http://www.tentel.com/prod01a.htm

Cheers!

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of FM

I have a T2 H15 UM Tentelometer that I'll gladly sell you but be warned, it will cost you more then your machine is worth!

Have you considered seeking out a repair shop that has one and getting them to calibrate your machine? I would, if I were you.

New, these meters go for $475 plus shipping and any applicable taxes.

http://www.tentel.com/prod01a.htm

Cheers!

Hi Ghost,
I was just on that website yesterday looking for tentelometers. They dont specificly mention one for reel to reels. Do you have one for sale or is the one you have still offered by TENTEL? I really would like to have one so I can accurately set tape tension.
Thanks
VP

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

Hi Ghost,
I was just on that website yesterday looking for tentelometers. They dont specificly mention one for reel to reels. Do you have one for sale or is the one you have still offered by TENTEL? I really would like to have one so I can accurately set tape tension.
Thanks
VP

The one I mentioned in my post as being the one I own is still a current model and listed on their price sheet. It also happens to be one of their least expensive models at $475.00 + shipping and any applicable state taxes.

http://www.tentel.com/Domestic%20Prices.pdf

They do in fact mention the model T2-H20-ML as being suitable for all open reel audio recorders up to 2". Beyond the extra 5 ounces of tension that this model can read, compared to the one that I have, it also has longer fork prongs to deal with 2" tape height. The fork prongs on mine are 2 inches long so I assume the ones on the T2_H20-ML are perhaps 3 inches long but I don't know for sure about that?

The number 15 in the model number of the one I own refers to the amount of ounces of tension the meter can read which makes mine suitable for machines up to 1" such as my MS-16 recorder which requires a meter that can read up to 12 onces of tension as one of the setting my transport calls for...this info available via reading the recorder's service manual.

I have read elsewhere on the web that these meters give their most accurate tension reading when you ask them to read no higher then half of their rated maximum tension reading which if true, (I don't know for sure?), means that a Tentelometer that reads up to 20 ounces would be a better choice as it could read more accurately then tension readings on 1 and 2 inch machines. Mine is said to be better suited for 1/2" and 1/4" decks though I have used mine on my MS-16 with good result.

I haven't really seriously thought of selling mine as I do have machines still to use it on so if I did sell it, it wouldn't be a "garage sale type price". Are you really sure you need to own one of these things and prepared to make me a serious offer on mine???

Cheers!

[Victory Pete]

I do really want one, I have 8 Tascam machines now and I have a friend who I have infected with this Analog Disease and he is aquiring some machines. I had been adjusting my MS-16 tape tension pots to get my RTZ to stop right on Zero, it was a nightmare, but I think I found the perfect balance of adjustments because it now FF or RW fast and right at 17 seconds to Zero the dynamic braking kicks in and it slowly continues to Zero. This took me all weekend. If I had the Tentelometer It probably would have been easier. Also I would like to know if I have the right tension on the heads during playback, I imagine too much tension will wear out the heads. How old is your Tentelometer?
VP

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

I do really want one, I have 8 Tascam machines now and I have a friend who I have infected with this Analog Disease and he is aquiring some machines. I had been adjusting my MS-16 tape tension pots to get my RTZ to stop right on Zero, it was a nightmare, but I think I found the perfect balance of adjustments because it now FF or RW fast and right at 17 seconds to Zero the dynamic braking kicks in and it slowly continues to Zero. This took me all weekend. If I had the Tentelometer It probably would have been easier. Also I would like to know if I have the right tension on the heads during playback, I imagine too much tension will wear out the heads. How old is your Tentelometer?
VP

I got mine approx. 4 years ago and has only been used once in all that time. I bought it second hand though and I never found out from the previous owner how long he owned it so I don't have an accurate age on mine. It is in decent shape though and comes with the manual and calibration weight kit so that it can be calibrated at any time to be accurate. Again, mine is not suited for 2" machines so if you have plans on getting one, it won't be suited to it.

I can take and post a picture of it if you like.

Cheers!

[Beck]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

I am having a small issue with my E-22. When attempting to bias, the left channel was wavering at 10k tone.

Is it only the left channel that does it? In that case I'd be looking at malfunctioning electronics, like something amiss in the audio circuit for the left channel. If both the left and right channels are affected I'd be looking at pinch roller condition and roller tension. The pinch roller could be out of round, tacky or glazed, making it too slick for a consistent feed.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the capstan on the E-2/E-22 is direct drive, so there's no capstan drive belt to change. If it does have a belt, that's another common culprit.

You kinda got yourself in a pickle now by trying to adjust reel tension blindly. You will have to buy or rent a Tentelometer, or have it professionally serviced before you can get on with troubleshooting. These later generation Tascam and Fostex decks are microcomputer controlled with very tight tolerances. Unfortunately you can't really adjust them by feel. You need a set of precision springs and a tentelometer to get it up to spec.

I wish I had better news, but that’s pretty much where you’re at for the moment.

[Tim Gillett]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

(when looking at the tape moving from the takeup reel to the left tension arm, at just the right reflective angle, you could see that the top end of the tape wasn't as taut as the bottom). .

This was good observation and you possibly located the cause of the problem right there, especially since you say the poor 10k was only on one channel. If the tension arm idler gets a real sharp tug from the tape it might bend slightly at its unsupported end, which is at the top. Sometimes a careful bending of the idler back to exactly perpendicular is all that is needed. Any tape machine running wide tape is more susceptible to this.

[FALKEN]

I think that yes it might have been the electronics. I think that the bias cap had gotten around to the wrong side (continuous cap) and it was not biasing properly because of this. It now biased perfectly, best bias this machine has had....I even got a grip on the "meter cal" function.

Now, I haven't actually yet messed with the tension adjustments...only the tension arms. I think maybe I should try to adjust the arms back so that RW and FF work better? This thing where the stop button doesn't work and it eats tape up on FF is really a bummer.

[FALKEN]

OK I spent another day working on this.

after adjusting the tension arms part of the tension arm was rubbing on the face of the machine after the face was put back on. this caused the RW and FF problems and also steadied the HF response on track 1. I fixed this problem,and re-did the tension arms until they were perfectly aligned on the machine. I put everything back together, and my HF response problem is back.

the HF response is wavey on track 1. It appears that there is some slack on one side of the tape (meaning the channel 1 side) coming off of the Left reel. if I gently pull the Left tension arm the tape becomes taut and the HF response steadies.

It also appears that on the Right side, the tape spools perfectly into the center of the reel, touching neither flange, while on the Left side, the tape seems to be resting on the bottom flange , though there does not appear to be any dragging, this could be causing the problem.

[FALKEN]

Originally Posted by Tim Gillett

This was good observation and you possibly located the cause of the problem right there, especially since you say the poor 10k was only on one channel. If the tension arm idler gets a real sharp tug from the tape it might bend slightly at its unsupported end, which is at the top. Sometimes a careful bending of the idler back to exactly perpendicular is all that is needed. Any tape machine running wide tape is more susceptible to this.

this is exactly what is happening. I have tried to bend the tension arm but I'm not sure i'm doin it right. I dont want to take it too far. I am pretty sure it is stragiht now. I wanted to be posting that I solved the problem ! but not yet. I still haven't touched any of the tension stuff.

[sweetbeats]

FALKEN,

The cause of your issue might be similar to a known issue on Tascasm's 40 series decks (and maybe others as well but I dealt with it first-hand on my 48).

I discussed the topic in my 48-OB Story thread...the tension arm issue picks up on about post 18 and I linked some videos in post 27 on how I straightened mine and checked them. Don't know if the tension arm design is similar to your Fostex. It was important to make sure my tension arms were straight but then even more critical to make sure the tension arm height was correct...later in the thread I spewed out detail on how I applied the steps in the manual for setting up the tape path. It just sounds to me like the tape on your E-22 is getting skewed either by a tweaked tension arm or a maladjusted tape path or both. I've had a mal-adjusted tension arm cause 1/2" tape to ride hard into a guide in PLAY, and just about stretch on one side because of severe skewing on the impedance roller in fast-wind.

Hope some of this info helps your issue.