Recording a electronic drum kit

[Wildtown]

Hey there,
I want to record an electronic drum kit, its a Yamaha DTX explorer. I use reaper at the moment to record on my pc. The drum kit has two outputs a normal line/jack output and a midi output. I presume that the midi output will give better results.
Im not sure what I can expect to record becuase if I record using midi will I get the exact same sound or will it just be a midi track and I would add drums sounds too that?
I also need some advice on a midi direct box, can anyone recomend one.

Thanks in advance

[gecko zzed]

You have a number of options.

You can record the audio out of the Yamaha through whatever you are using as an interface on your computer. If you are not using a specific audio interface, and are just using a standard, on-board sound card, then this may work okay, but there's a strong likelihood that it will not give good quality results.

Another option is to to connect the Yamaha to your computer via midi and record the midi in Reaper.

This gives you a couple of possibilities. You can use this recorded midi track to play a virtual drum kit, and get different sounds to the yamaha. You can use this midi track to play another outboard sound module (e.g. a different drum machine) via midi out.

Or you can play back the recorded midi on your yamaha, again via midi.

[mjbphotos]

The point is that if you record the midi output, you will be recording hte midi data in Reaper, not the actual audio sounds.

[d.bop]

Right. As mentioned, MIDI is just data containing note-on's, note-off's, pitch, cc, and other information. It does not contain any audio whatsoever.

So if you're recording the MIDI out from your drumkit, you'll need a virtual instrument to play the drums on your computer. If you record the line out on your drumkit, you will be recording the audio.

You could also get "the best of both worlds" and record both if you'd like. It's always good to have options

To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a MIDI Direct Box

[Wildtown]

I have been able to record the drums now. I used the line out from the kit and into a usb interface device and the sound was good but this creates some problems.
1) becuase I am recording to one track there is no way (or at least I think so) to pan indivdual drums such as the snare, f/tom etc. I really would like to experiment with this.

2) I found that the bass drum was a little to bass heavy so cut the lower frequency a bit but I would like to do this for each drum in turn to see what other options may be availble.

I think the only way this can be done is to record the drums using Midi. Is that the case?

[dodgeaspen]

Your right, you will not be able to pan individual drums using only one track.

[Wildtown]

Originally Posted by dodgeaspen

Your right, you will not be able to pan individual drums using only one track.

So I presume this is possible in midi?

[theCKWilliams]

Originally Posted by d.bop

Right. As mentioned, MIDI is just data containing note-on's, note-off's, pitch, cc, and other information. It does not contain any audio whatsoever.

To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a MIDI Direct Box

is this a midi direct box?

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-to-MIDI-Keyb...ht_2743wt_1165

[d.bop]

No. That is an adapter that allows you to transfer MIDI information from your device to your keyboard.

A 'Direct Box' (aka D.I. or Direct Injection Box) converts an unbalanced audio signal into balanced audio signal.

More info on DI's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DI_unit

[d.bop]

Originally Posted by Wildtown

So I presume this is possible in midi?

Yep, it's possible with MIDI. Since each "hit" triggers a different MIDI note depending on whatever drum piece your hitting (Kick = C2 or 36, Snare = E2 or 40, etc..) you can send different pieces of your drum to different channels, then record those different channels on separate tracks.

If you're using something like EZDrummer or similar, you can create a multi-out and control things that way, or you can control them from within the plugin itself. It all depends on how the VSTi is set up.

[Wildtown]

Still not really getting this one, I understand so far that midi is way of recording data which can then be used to trigger sounds. I am okay with this. I understand that I have to transmit data from my electronic drum kit (yamaha DTX explorer) to my pc. To do this I need an interface http://www.reverb-store.co.uk/produc...l.asp?prod=432 was thinking about this one. Now this is where I get a bit lost.
1) Will this kind of unit allow me to trasmit midi data from the drum machine to my pc presuming I have armed a midi track in my recording software (reaper)?
2) When I am actually recording will I hear what the kit is playing ie the kits own sounds or will I hear what will be triggered from the midi track if I have set it up a specific way? ps I realise that I will need sounds to trigger ie some kind of drum sound software
3) If I record in midi will I be able to make EQ or FX changes to seperate drum components such as the snare, bass and hihat and will I be able to pan drums on there own?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Terry Wetzel]

Hi, I don't know if this will help, but- I record each drum,Snare,kick,cymbals,toms individually,Played by hand from the combination headphone/line out jack on my Yamaha keyboard,(older model) to individual tracks on my Alesis,HD24. If each track is carefully recorded in proper tempo, the tracks can then be balanced and panned to your liking. This may not be the most modern way of doing it but it works for me. I don't imagine the sound quality is much different between the Yamaha and your electronic drum kit. The main difference being your ability to EQ each drum sound to your liking. I hope this may help

[Wish14]

Originally Posted by Wildtown

1) becuase I am recording to one track there is no way (or at least I think so) to pan indivdual drums such as the snare, f/tom etc. I really would like to experiment with this.

Unless I am missing something....

If you want stereo, take the Left AND Right output channels of your drum brain and record to 2 tracks, not just a single mono track. Adjust your panning in the drum brain, as you won't be able to after the tracks are recorded.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by Wildtown

Still not really getting this one, I understand so far that midi is way of recording data which can then be used to trigger sounds. I am okay with this. I understand that I have to transmit data from my electronic drum kit (yamaha DTX explorer) to my pc. To do this I need an interface http://www.reverb-store.co.uk/produc...l.asp?prod=432 was thinking about this one. Now this is where I get a bit lost.
1) Will this kind of unit allow me to trasmit midi data from the drum machine to my pc presuming I have armed a midi track in my recording software (reaper)?
2) When I am actually recording will I hear what the kit is playing ie the kits own sounds or will I hear what will be triggered from the midi track if I have set it up a specific way? ps I realise that I will need sounds to trigger ie some kind of drum sound software
3) If I record in midi will I be able to make EQ or FX changes to seperate drum components such as the snare, bass and hihat and will I be able to pan drums on there own?

Thanks in advance for any help!

1) Yes, the M-Audio has midi ports to transfer the data.
2) That depends on what you're listening to. If your headphones are plugged into your yamaha, you'll be listening to the yamaha. If your headphones are plugged into your audio interface, then you'll be listening to whatever you have for your sound source in Reaper; a drum VSTi like ezdrummer, prehaps.
3) That all depends on what your sound source (VSTi) in Reaper allows you to do. If you're recording midi, you are not recording the sounds from your yamaha, only the drum hits.

You said this earlier:

1) becuase I am recording to one track there is no way (or at least I think so) to pan indivdual drums such as the snare, f/tom etc. I really would like to experiment with this.

Why didn't you record in stereo instead of mono. Use your yamaha controller to pan where you want. EQ the stereo track after you record.

[d.bop]

Ok, so as mentioned, the mbox2 will work fine.

You can record your MIDI data in REAPER, just as you would a normal audio track. Most drum software has multiple outputs, allowing you to route different drum pieces to different tracks. This will give you complete control just as if you recorded a real kit. You can pan, eq, compress, anything you want to the individual drum pieces.

REAPER has a built in function that will automatically build all of the tracks for you. (Insert -> Virtual Instrument on New Track...) You then choose your VSTi. The tracks will be built but you'll need to do the routing by yourself.

The routing is done in the VSTi itself and is different depending on the software you use, but usually they have a "multi-output" option that allows you to choose the output for each track.

There's a lot of good info in the REAPER manual about routing. You can find a free PDF on http://www.reaper.fm (there is also a place to purchase a hard copy if you'd like)

[Wildtown]

Originally Posted by Chili

1) Yes, the M-Audio has midi ports to transfer the data.
2) That depends on what you're listening to. If your headphones are plugged into your yamaha, you'll be listening to the yamaha. If your headphones are plugged into your audio interface, then you'll be listening to whatever you have for your sound source in Reaper; a drum VSTi like ezdrummer, prehaps.
3) That all depends on what your sound source (VSTi) in Reaper allows you to do. If you're recording midi, you are not recording the sounds from your yamaha, only the drum hits.

You said this earlier:


Why didn't you record in stereo instead of mono. Use your yamaha controller to pan where you want. EQ the stereo track after you record.

Ok this is a very helpfull reply but I am not sure about the stereo part? Yes the kit does have a stereo output but I dont see how this helps me any? I want to have to have (if possible) complete control over how far left or right the drums are panned also I want to make EQ changes to all the drums on their own. Surely just recording in stereo would achieve this, would it?

[Chili]

Originally Posted by Wildtown

Ok this is a very helpfull reply but I am not sure about the stereo part? Yes the kit does have a stereo output but I dont see how this helps me any? I want to have to have (if possible) complete control over how far left or right the drums are panned also I want to make EQ changes to all the drums on their own. Surely just recording in stereo would achieve this, would it?

I'm not familiar with the Yamaha edrums, but there might be some panning ability in the control box. That would work if you were recording to a stereo track. You would have to create a stereo track in reaper to record, then you control the panning in the yamaha box.

BUT, if you're looking to eq indivdual drums, I doubt the yamaha box would allow you to do that. Now you're looking at getting a VSTi to trigger from the edrums through midi.

I mentioned ezdrummer before and you should check it out. Not too expensive and you get all the control over each drum that you want. there's a demo video on Toontrack's website showing ezdrummer being triggered by an edrum kit. It's pretty cool.