Compression: Norah Jones - Don't Know Why

[BenignVanilla]

This damn forum, has gotten me listening to music not for its beauty and transcendence anymore, no...now...I find myself thinking "where is that panned"..."how was that mic'ed"..."is that compressed?"

Damn you forum.

On that topic...Norah Jones...Don't know why...to my ear, there is very little, if any compression on her voice...sometimes her voice seems to swell and just when I think it'll clip...it doesn't.

So is this really good use of compression...or none at all? Anyone know?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by BenignVanilla

This damn forum, has gotten me listening to music not for its beauty and transcendence anymore, no...now...I find myself thinking "where is that panned"..."how was that mic'ed"..."is that compressed?"

Damn you forum.

LOL, don't fret over it too much, BV; that just means you're halfway home already. It won't take too long (hopefully!) when "hearing the engineering" will become almost as natural as hearing the musicality, and you'll be able to appreciate both more or less simultaneously without them getting in the way of each other.

I don't have current access to that Norah Jones cut, but just working from old memory and, frankly, edu-guestimation (it's been a good year since her stuff has crossed by ears at all) I'd say that there's probably at least some compression to keep the vocals relatively coherent, but the kind you don't necessarily "hear" as a blatant effect. The "swelling" could be (I'm not saying it is, but it's a common technique and just an example of what could be an explanation) fader/level automation applied *after* compression. In other words, the light or moderate compression is used to even/smooth out the envelope or consistency of the vocal, and then the fader jockey steps in and rocks the track level a bit to cause the dynamic swelling.

G.

[witzendoz]

The best vocal compression is microphone technique by the singer.

Close up when singing soft, pull back a little when cutting loose. Later when mixing the levels are more consistent and also have a more natural dynamic. When compression is added it is not working overtime trying to control wayward dynamics from a person that does not know how to sing, only controlling the odd peaks and helping the vocal sit in the mix.

It's funny on this forum how people are trying constantly to get technology to make up for poor performance both singing and playing instruments.

Norah Jones knows how to sing.

Cheers

Alan.

[stevieb]

Originally Posted by witzendoz

...Norah Jones knows how to sing.

She should, based on her DNA. You DO know who her father is, don't you?

[Seafroggys]

Um, her father doesn't sing, or if he does, he's not known for it.

[Massive Master]

I have that album on 200g 1/2-speed vinyl (doesn't get much better as far as vinyl is concerned) pretty much for dialing in the system.

It's not hooked up at the moment, but I seem to remember considerable compression on the vocal... Well done, very nice compression of course (very LA2A-ish, perhaps VariMu on the "limiter" setting), but quite a decent dose of it. Low threshold, low ratio, long A&R's, just gentle leveling.

That said - It is a great recording...

[BenignVanilla]

Originally Posted by witzendoz

The best vocal compression is microphone technique by the singer.

SNIPPED

Norah Jones knows how to sing.

And that is what I was thinking...this was Norah doing the compression real time.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by witzendoz

It's funny on this forum how people are trying constantly to get technology to make up for poor performance

Amen, brother.

It's getting worse, too. Every second thread seems to be "what plug-in(s) should I use if I want.........".

[NL5]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

I have that album on 200g 1/2-speed vinyl (doesn't get much better as far as vinyl is concerned) pretty much for dialing in the system.

It's not hooked up at the moment, but I seem to remember considerable compression on the vocal... Well done, very nice compression of course (very LA2A-ish, perhaps VariMu on the "limiter" setting), but quite a decent dose of it. Low threshold, low ratio, long A&R's, just gentle leveling.

That said - It is a great recording...

Yep. There is a crapload of compression on the NJ album if memory serves me.....

edit -

According to Jay Newland it has a Vari-Mu on it going in, and an LA2A during mixing. He calls each pass "minimal" - while I'm sure it wasn't "bury the needle" rock compression, I bet his idea of minimal is still hitting at least 6-8 db of GR on each pass.

[Massive Master]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

very nice compression of course (very LA2A-ish, perhaps VariMu on the "limiter" setting), but quite a decent dose of it.

Originally Posted by NL5

According to Jay Newland it has a Vari-Mu on it going in, and an LA2A during mixing.

Whoo hoo! My ears still work!

[Tim Gillett]

Originally Posted by witzendoz

The best vocal compression is microphone technique by the singer.

Close up when singing soft, pull back a little when cutting loose. Later when mixing the levels are more consistent and also have a more natural dynamic. When compression is added it is not working overtime trying to control wayward dynamics from a person that does not know how to sing, only controlling the odd peaks and helping the vocal sit in the mix.

It's funny on this forum how people are trying constantly to get technology to make up for poor performance both singing and playing instruments.

Norah Jones knows how to sing.

Cheers

Alan.

I agree but there are also peaks that happen too quickly for the vocalist to be correcting with mic technique.

To use Dont Know Why as an example since it was mentioned, listen at 1:22

She sings "I would cross the endless sea..." and the "I" appears to have been controlled with compression. Maybe 6db or more.
For her to have tried to use mic technique on such a short section would be impractical. There are other examples through the song and probably the rest of the album.
There are certain notes and sounds a vocalist or instrumentalist can only produce at elevated or reduced levels but they can sound crap in the context of the whole song unless "helped' a bit.
Definitely compression on vocals on that album. And to my ears it's the right compression.
Sure, some of us can hear it but it's also the sort of compression that most casual listeners wouldnt even know was happening. That means the engineer did his job well.

Also this particular album has a soft romantic feel and I suspect many buyers use it for gentle romantic background music. She's meant to be sounding like she's almost whispering. Big vocal dynamics, even though strictly closer to how she actually sang into the mic, would likely ruin the effect, IMO.

Cheers Tim

[dodgeaspen]

Their spell is working. They have you right where they want you. Compression and all.

[witzendoz]

Just to repeat what I said:

"When compression is added it is not working overtime trying to control wayward dynamics from a person that does not know how to sing, only controlling the odd peaks and helping the vocal sit in the mix".

You will still need compression, but the compression is not making up for the fact that the vocalist has no technique or ability.

I had a band in the studio a while ago doing a demo (read low budget lots of songs), the singer would shout the first word of every line and then wimpier out at the end. The only way to keep it in the mix was to put a limiter then a compressor on the vocal track, the limiter (fast acting) held back the first word then the compressor (more gentle) smoothed the rest and let the end of each line be heard. I should not have to resort to this kind of treatment but the budget and my time does not include singing lesions. I don't know how a live sound engineer with a loud stage could get this guy in the mix.

Cheers

Alan.

p.s I am not a Norah Jones fan, but she can sing and I have seen her live (wife likes her).

[BenignVanilla]

Great thread guys/gals. This is exactly the sort of thread that does it for me. Take a song and analyze with some thought.

Tim...I listened to the section you mentioned, and can see what you are saying.

I say kudos to Norah, and the engineer that mixed it.

[NL5]

I think the biggest mistake newbs make is thinking of a compressor as some sort of gain control. In modern music, it is almost never used in that capacity. (Norh Jones included)

[Middleman]

CONSOLE: Home-made, custom-designed known as the "Acoutilog"

RECORDER: Studer 820

MONITORS: 1031, NS-10

MICS: Vocals - M49, Piano- B&K 4011, Acoustic Bass - RCA 44 & U47, Acoustic Guit - KM84, OH's U47, Snare - SM57, Kick - AKG D112, Toms - Senn 421, Ambient Mic - B&K.

PRES: Neve and Manley

PROCESSORS: LA2A, Neve comps, Lexi 480

All 13 tunes were recorded live in 2 days at Sorcerer Sound in NY engineered by Jay Newland, produced by jay and norah and Arif Mardin.

NORAH JONES

"Don't Know Why"

Producer: Arif Mardin

Co-Producer: Jay Newland

Engineer: Jay Newland

Arif Mardin walked away with several Grammys this year for his work with Norah Jones - one of which included Producer of the Year (non-classical). The legendary producer had this to say about his tone objectives for Norah's vocal on her multi-platinum recording: "We picked vintage microphones which would preserve the natural beauty of Norah's vocal sound. We did not go for microphones that add coloration."

Jay Newland co-produced along with Mardin, engineered, and mixed "Don't Know Why." He earned a Best Engineered Album (non-classical) Grammy for Come Away With Me , from which "Don't Know Why" was a single. "The objective for the vocal was to take what is clearly a beautiful voice and have it sound as natural as possible. At the same time it needed to seem very close to the listener, with all the subtleties intact."

Signal Path: Tracking

"The first time I heard Norah Jones sing at a rehearsal before our initial sessions, I knew she had a truly great voice," says Jay. "I only mention this because it's the crucial first link in the chain. The recording chain for 'Don't Know Why,' as well as most of the rest of the record, was a Neumann M 49 microphone into a Manley tube mic pre. We tried other mics, a [Neumann] U 47 and a [AKG] C12vr, but the M 49 had the right amount of 'air' while maintaining a real fullness and warmth. The tube pre was also warm but a little less colored than, say, a vintage Neve pre, which I love in many cases. This went into one side of a Manley Vari-mu compressor with a fast attack and release setting. The threshold was high so it was barely hitting the compressor. The Vari-mu can also be very transparent, which is why I liked it for this application. This went to BASF (Emtec) 900 analog tape at 15 ips on a Studer A820 with Dolby SR. Although I like Pro Tools HD, we did not use Pro Tools on this session. No Auto-Tuning. The console is custom built by Al Fierstein, owner of Sorcerer Sound, and is called Acoustilog."

Signal Path: Mixdown

"In the mix stage, the voice went through a new Universal Audio LA-2A. Again the threshold was set so that compression was minimal."

[BenignVanilla]

That is an excellent breakdown.

[RDMS]

Originally Posted by witzendoz

Norah Jones knows how to sing.

I love this song... You can hear the Autotune in the opening lines... OOPS !!
Parallel compression on this one I'd say... along with automated fader levels.