M-Audio DMP3 mic pre advice

[jeffree]

Folks, I've been reading mostly good reviews of the DMP3 here at the forum in recent years, and I'm finally ready to add a cheap pre to my cheap studio. I've set $200 as my limit since it's just for the late-night weird stuff that I don't want to take into a full studio. My guitars are good, but I use a basic Yamaha aw16g and Studio Projects B1 mics--you get the idea. I'll be using the pre mostly with acoustic stringed instruments (steel & nylon guits, balalaika, etc.).

Anyone have a suggestion besides the DMP3, or is that the best I can do for a couple bills?

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[Muyukiguki]

For under $200, it's hard to beat a DMP3. Unless you buy something used off EBay, even then, the DMP3 will probably rival it.

[darrin_h2000]

Line6 UX2 is also $200 and is far better than the DMP3.

[SMX_Dizzy]

Originally Posted by darrin_h2000

Line6 UX2 is also $200 and is far better than the DMP3.

Not going to explain yourself on that one?

[drossfile]

you'll probably get a few other suggestions along the way, but if you've combed through the threads enough, the consensus speaks for itself. the dmp3 is an unbelievable value. if you're looking for clean preamplification, i can't imagine doing better at the price point.

[darrin_h2000]

To clairify the Line6 ux2 has settings that make it sound like you are using an API 512...a Neve 1073...or an avalon...and it also has a usb interface and a lite version of Abelton Live...for $200...and if you are a guitar center customer...there is 15% off with the coupon from the mail yesterday

The DMP3 is a one trick pony that just amplifies the signal with low noise...not bad but a one trick pony more or less...and you still have to buy an interface and program.

[pohaku]

Originally Posted by darrin_h2000

To clairify the Line6 ux2 has settings that make it sound like you are using an API 512...a Neve 1073...or an avalon...and it also has a usb interface and a lite version of Abelton Live...for $200...and if you are a guitar center customer...there is 15% off with the coupon from the mail yesterday

The DMP3 is a one trick pony that just amplifies the signal with low noise...not bad but a one trick pony more or less...and you still have to buy an interface and program.

I'm curious. You've been extolling the benefits of the Line 6 stuff for awhile here. Have you actually compared it with an API 512, Neve 1073 or Avalon to know that it actually can accurately reproduce those sounds and features? I've not used one myself and I'd like to know how close it gets.

[darrin_h2000]

Most all rock music from the past 40 years have used of the API or Neve preamps...you dont have to look that far to find samples of what those preamps sound like

You can hear the same nuances running an SM57 though the models on the line6 unit...even if they werent...it is still several flavors of preamp the DMP3 doesnt have at all.

[pohaku]

Originally Posted by darrin_h2000

Most all rock music from the past 40 years have used of the API or Neve preamps...you dont have to look that far to find samples of what those preamps sound like

You can hear the same nuances running an SM57 though the models on the line6 unit...even if they werent...it is still several flavors of preamp the DMP3 doesnt have at all.

To clarify my question. I have API and Neve pres and some others as well (no Avalon though). So I know what they sound like. What I'm wondering about is how accurately the Line 6 stuff reproduces those sounds.

[second skin]

you won't be sorry if you go with the DMP3. it is a preamp that will stick with you even when you upgrade you interface etc. another one worth looking at is the symetrix sx202. i've been using a couple of those for my drum recordings along with the dmp3 for the overheads and they are doing a great job.


also i would not take the advice of anyone that recommends an interface when you are clearly asking about a preamp.

[dmc777]

Originally Posted by darrin_h2000

Line6 UX2 is also $200 and is far better than the DMP3.

Put some samples up of the Line6 vs. the DMP3. Use the exact same setup of acoustic guitar with same mic and same position. Also, use different settings on the Line6 and let's see if we can tell what's what. I'm curious to hear this if it's as good as you say it is.

[quickmill]

I think the DMP3 is kind of a no-brainer at this price point. I say get it and don't look back.

[darrin_h2000]

Whatever...if you guys dont want to look into the new preamp that will save you thousands toward getting a real pro preamp sound...for a cheap preamp barely worth the overage from an Audiobuddy

I mean WTF...you allways want to know what is best at a price point...and when someone who has been doing this for a very long time gives you some advice...you dont want to take it.

[darrin_h2000]

Originally Posted by pohaku

To clarify my question. I have API and Neve pres and some others as well (no Avalon though). So I know what they sound like. What I'm wondering about is how accurately the Line 6 stuff reproduces those sounds.

My cousin bought the Avalon and the great river mp2v (Neve 1073 clone)...they sound very much the same...very accurate...and cleaner...we have no API to compare it with...but there are hundreds of samples in Classic rock if you just listen to some...and I can tell it was done right too.

[quickmill]

Originally Posted by darrin_h2000

Whatever...if you guys dont want to look into the new preamp that will save you thousands toward getting a real pro preamp sound...for a cheap preamp barely worth the overage from an Audiobuddy

I mean WTF...you allways want to know what is best at a price point...and when someone who has been doing this for a very long time gives you some advice...you dont want to take it.

The thing is that it's hard to find anyone cutting on the DMP3. It gets almost universal praise from lowenders. The only people I hear cut it are people using high end pre's. You're the first I've seen cutting on it who had emulations of high end pre's.

The truth is, I haven't heard much about the Line 6 unit. I know that doesn't mean it's not good but most good stuff finds it's way around. I do know that the name Line6 leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I own 2 Rane Ms1b's. I'm really happy with them (they get similar rep to the Dmp3). If and when I do decide to upgrade, It won't be for an emulation of a high end pre. It will be for a high end pre. Just as if I wanted a Vox AC30 I wouldn't buy a Line6 Pod instead.

And by the way, there are lots of home recordists with "lots of years of experience" recommending the Dmp3 daily. To each his own

[second skin]

the point is that the line 6 is not a preamp, it is an interface.

[darrin_h2000]

Originally Posted by second skin

the point is that the line 6 is not a preamp, it is an interface.

It has an interface...I use the analog outs and input them to my DAW...and you can also use the free version of Abelton live that comes with it....all the modeling prosessing is done with your computer and it goes out of the analog outs sounding like you have plugged into an API or a Neve...and you can input those into anything.

The DMP3 isnt bad for what it is...but why go with somthing that just amplifies without color at all...you want that API and Neve sound...and it has a model based on the Grace 801 if you want something like that too.

[dickiefunk]

Another vote for the DMP3. Also the Symetrix SX202 and Rane MS-1b. These are all really good clean preamps that won't hinder you making decent recordings (so long as the rest of the chain is decent - room, instrument, performance, mic etc).

For $225 you can pick up an ART MPA Gold which with upgraded tubes has a really nice tone! Watch out for quality control though as some people have had hum issues with this preamp (myself included). If you get a good one though it's a very nice flexible preamp!

[undrgrnd studio]

Originally Posted by darrin_h2000

and it goes out of the analog outs sounding like you have plugged into an API or a Neve

I don't believe that for a second.

I would rather have a solid low end pre like the DMP3 that isn't pretending to sound like something it can never compare to, than a multitasker that supposedly sounds like gear that cost 10 or 20 times that amount any day. Because there is simply no way that a cheap line 6 interface/pre/emulator is going to do all those things well. Don;t get me wrong, I would buy one if I could get it cheap just to play with, but if I had to make a choice between one or the other, I would take the tried and true DMP3. It does ONE thing, and it does it well.

[quickmill]

Originally Posted by second skin

the point is that the line 6 is not a preamp, it is an interface.

I don't see why this is an issue. It's an interface with built in pre's. If I were looking for a cheap preamp I would consider an interface if lots of people could vouch for the pre's.

I have no problem with Darrin recommending it. He obviously believes in it. Matter of fact, if I get a chance to check one out , I will (entirely because of Darrin's passion for it). I just don't believe anything in the Dmp3 price range is going to "blow it's doors off". I also don't believe pro level studios are going to sell their Api's or Neve's because they found a $150 solution that's just as good. I've wasted my money on enough cheap solutions in the past. I think all a cheap preamp should be expected to do is amplify a signal with as little noise as possible. So far I'm skeptical of any cheap color boxes but that doesn't mean they don't exist. In the meantime I will recommend the Dmp3 to all cheap preamp seekers.

[second skin]

Originally Posted by quickmill

I don't see why this is an issue. It's an interface with built in pre's. If I were looking for a cheap preamp I would consider an interface if lots of people could vouch for the pre's.

because the poster was looking for a preamp specifically. that would imply that he already has an interface of some sort. while it's an extreme example i would get slammed right away if someone came in asking about pres and i said something like "the pre's in my digi003r do a good job for me and with all of the software that came with it i can make it sound like just about anything"

it just strikes me as a strange connection is all.

[Shadow_7]

The issue with interfaces is that you can't upgrade just the converters for something better. It's all or nothing. And if any one part breaks, the whole thing is useless. Although generally cheaper since you don't need all of those cables and power strips to connect everything together. But problematic if you use them in a electronically noisy environment.

As far as color you can add color in post. Pipe it through an EQ. Or other effects, plugins, or whatever software. I guess the Line 6 bundles that software for you, but so what?

The DMP3 is a high gain, low noise preamp. 66dB of gain. More than many of the other preamps. The more expensive ones have even lower noise. So when mixing many channels that noise doesn't add up. The Line 6 might mimic the sound, but I doubt it shares the same noise characteristics.

The DMP3 is a good unit for it's price point. Color is easy, transparent is not. And the DMP3 is about as transparent as you can get for that price point. One trick pony and all.

[thespark]

The best of both worlds:

Use a preamp that is super clean like the DMP3, and then if you have the line6 plugs, use the preamp sims if you are so inclined.

[drossfile]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

The issue with interfaces is that you can't upgrade just the converters for something better. It's all or nothing. And if any one part breaks, the whole thing is useless. Although generally cheaper since you don't need all of those cables and power strips to connect everything together. But problematic if you use them in a electronically noisy environment.

As far as color you can add color in post. Pipe it through an EQ. Or other effects, plugins, or whatever software. I guess the Line 6 bundles that software for you, but so what?

The DMP3 is a high gain, low noise preamp. 66dB of gain. More than many of the other preamps. The more expensive ones have even lower noise. So when mixing many channels that noise doesn't add up. The Line 6 might mimic the sound, but I doubt it shares the same noise characteristics.

The DMP3 is a good unit for it's price point. Color is easy, transparent is not. And the DMP3 is about as transparent as you can get for that price point. One trick pony and all.

this post nails it. i'm a line 6 fan, and i cannot believe that they've packed thousands of dollars of high-end circuitry w/ software included into a $200 unit.

i mean, sure, they can emulate the color to an extent, and i don't even doubt that it sounds decent. what i have a harder time believing is that they've designed a circuit as clean as a grace for that price. come to think of it, if their clean patch was as good as a dmp3, while adding all the extra features, the boards would be awash with high praise.

i know there are a lot of anti-line 6ers out there, but ultimately the results win. look at the casio privia series as a prime example--even elitists are impressed by the quality at the price point and aren't afraid to say so. i have yet to see any such consensus on the ux2.

[jeffree]

Just want to pop in again to thank all you good people who replied to my original post. I know these threads become useful for others, too, and I have no doubt this one will help someone else in my situation.

Some of you guessed right that I really just need a relatively clean pre at this time since I have everything else I need for my low-end little studio. By the way, as a long-time guitarist, I've been using the old Johnson J-Station modeler with nice results for guitar and bass. As a former Fender Twin enthusiast, I'm particularly happy with the clean modeling tones based on that amp. I need the new pre simply for acoustic instruments so that I can bypass the Yam's pres, which are notoriously hissy when boosted for condenser mics like mine.

I really appreciate the Line 6 and other suggestions, though, which may be right on target for some future readers with different tastes and needs. My own preference is for a very simple pre that does its thing well since I'm a musician first and only a reluctant, technically challenged engineer. For $200, I just want a clean signal for my entry-level mics, so it seems like the DMP3 will help with that. I was glad to learn about other options, though. That's why I asked.

So a big thanks again to everyone for your helpful replies--you guys are great. I'll soon be heading down to GC to grab the spiffy new black version of the DMP3 and post my thoughts after I've given it some work.

Cheers~
Jeff