Ok, could someone give me some info on the "why's" of multi-band compression?

[DrewPeterson7]

This is one of those effects which I almost never use, because I guess I never really understood what would be an appropriate situation for it.

So, because I'm not really sure how else to ask this, could a few of you who feel like they do have a good handle on it maybe walk me through a few mixing situations you've been in where it's been useful? I.e - what you identified as "wrong" in the track, how you "fixed" it with a multiband compressor, and why it made more sense to you to do that rather than use either a conventional compressor, or an EQ, or some other more elaborate "fix."

Sorry, I realize this is a pretty big question... Thanks!

[Rokket]

Off the top of my head, I'd use it if all I had was a stereo drum track to work with. I think the application would be obvious.

[Ronan]

Multiband compression can be an interesting problem solver when you have a mix (or instrument) where it is more dynamic in certain frequencies than others. One situation could be a mix where certain bass frequencies jump out of the mix at various times. A single band compressor would compress or attenuate the whole mix just because of that bass frequency. with a multiband compressor, you can have just those frequencies compressed while leaving the high frequencies alone.

A lot of people will get really excited about multiband compression for a while and end up moving away from it. While they can be cool tools, keep in mind that amazing albums were made for decades without them.

[deejaytrixx]

Originally Posted by Ronan

Multiband compression can be an interesting problem solver when you have a mix (or instrument) where it is more dynamic in certain frequencies than others. One situation could be a mix where certain bass frequencies jump out of the mix at various times. A single band compressor would compress or attenuate the whole mix just because of that bass frequency. with a multiband compressor, you can have just those frequencies compressed while leaving the high frequencies alone.

A lot of people will get really excited about multiband compression for a while and end up moving away from it. While they can be cool tools, keep in mind that amazing albums were made for decades without them.

+1 for the example. Recently I had to use it on a vocal performance that has a spike around 1hkz..I could've tried to EQ it..but I would have had to automate the EQ through 4 minutes of vox..I could have also created a sidechain so that a compressor would just compress that frequency...but multi-band compression was just a shorter version of those options, while still letting me compress the other frequencies of the vocal in another way.

It can also come in handy as a mastering tool (if you have a really create multi-band) on a stereo track.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by DrewPeterson7

This is one of those effects which I almost never use, because I guess I never really understood what would be an appropriate situation for it.

They work great in hearing aids.

In the studio? Damned if I've ever found the need for one other than sibilance control when I don't have a de-esser. I made it through the first 15 or so years of my time messing with this stuff before they ever even existed and never missed them then. So who needs them now?

YMMV to the extreme.

G.

[Massive Master]

Metallica "AJFA" type guitar "thwumpies" -- When there's so much low end that you need to compress only the thwumpy part so the needle doesn't jump out of the groove.

Rarely ever comes in handy - Certainly not on anything that actually sounds good...

[flatfinger]

http://emusician.com/dsp/emusic_lets_split/


http://www.rane.com/note1559.html


So much of adjusting a compressor (split-band or broadband) is dependant on the material you are processing. Is it a single instrument or a vocal?? is it a sub-buss mix of an entire drum kit ?? The rules change again for an entire mix !!

If you don't know your way around a broadband compressor , split-band is'nt going to provide any improvment because it only complicates matters exponentially .
concentrate on seeing what can be accomplished with a broadband ;there are many different derivitaves ( topoligy like feedfoward or feedback; vca , opto , rms or peak detection, soft or hard knee ect ect ) just in that catagory !!

( you've read glenns guide , right ?)

when you've got that sussed , then look at the multi's.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

Rarely ever comes in handy - Certainly not on anything that actually sounds good...

LOL, that pretty much sums it up .

G.

[DrewPeterson7]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

Metallica "AJFA" type guitar "thwumpies" -- When there's so much low end that you need to compress only the thwumpy part so the needle doesn't jump out of the groove.

Rarely ever comes in handy - Certainly not on anything that actually sounds good...

I do play instrumental rock, and an Ibanez 7-string through a Mesa, at that, but I don't really do much, um, "thwumpie" stuff.

Ok, so the fact I never use the things probably isn't me missing out on a really cool, super useful tool?

I guess what I was trying to get at, and I think a bunch of you have answered this, is if there was eer a situation where I found some problem frequencies on a, say, acoustic guitar track around, oh, hell, 600hz, under what situation would I be better off pulling up a multi-band compressor instead of an EQ notch there. And, I guess the answer would be that it'd be a good idea if it was only a problem for part of the performance, but not all - the "thwumpie" example, or maybe a strange resonance on the acoustic when the player (in my case, me ) really dug in hard on the choruses, that wasn't there on a verse?

Thanks in advance guys!

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by DrewPeterson7

This is one of those effects which I almost never use, because I guess I never really understood what would be an appropriate situation for it.

So, because I'm not really sure how else to ask this, could a few of you who feel like they do have a good handle on it maybe walk me through a few mixing situations you've been in where it's been useful? I.e - what you identified as "wrong" in the track, how you "fixed" it with a multiband compressor, and why it made more sense to you to do that rather than use either a conventional compressor, or an EQ, or some other more elaborate "fix."

Sorry, I realize this is a pretty big question... Thanks!

Generally used to tame certain frequency bands in a recording you had no control over. Most used on live recordings where eack track has either massive bleed or combined parts that can't be seperated.


Also used as a crutch for bad mixing skills. Although, as a tool, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater (unless it is legal to do so).

Never say never when it comes to babies.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by MCI2424

Never say never

You just said it......TWICE!!!!

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by flatfinger

If you don't know your way around a broadband compressor , split-band is'nt going to provide any improvment because it only complicates matters exponentially .

I tend to agree... Multi bands are complicated but still very useful if the operator knows what they are doing.

Multi band gets a bad rap most likely because of their complexity or people just associate it with the plug in type(which are very useful as well).

If you ever have the opportunity you should check out and experiment with one of these 3 outboard MB's units:
Maselec MLA - 3
Tube Tech SMC 2b
Drawmer S3

While they are quite expensive they are very powerful tools. (again, if used right)
It's its simplest form it is a dynamic eq. You can choose to use one band or all bands.
There's a little bit of a learning curve so in the wrong hands they can screw things up.

[MadAudio]

Just to be pedantic, I'd like to point out that a compressor is not an "effect." It's a dynamics processor. An effect would be something time-based like delay or chorus.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

Just to be pedantic, I'd like to point out that a compressor is not an "effect." It's a dynamics processor. An effect would be something time-based like delay or chorus.

Where have you been hiding?

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by Rokket

Where have you been hiding?

Facebook. I needed a break from this place for awhile. And I'm pretty much done with A&A.

[oretez]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

They work great in hearing aids.

In the studio? Damned if I've ever found the need for one other than sibilance control when I don't have a de-esser. I made it through the first 15 or so years of my time messing with this stuff before they ever even existed and never missed them then. So who needs them now?

YMMV to the extreme.

G.

which based on your quoted age puts an interesting time line on your audio work history

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by oretez

which based on your quoted age puts an interesting time line on your audio work history

Well, I might not have the age on MBC in the studio in general accurate. I know it wasn't until sometime in the mid 90s or so that I became familiar with the concept of MBC as anything other than as a stage within noise reduction systems like Dolby and dbx, and even then it was from reading about new hearing aid technologies. It's that time frame I'm taking that number from. I'm welcome to correction.

The main point is that the recording world seemed to do just fine before they came along.

G.

[ShredRocket]

MBC is mostly used to a certain extent in mastering studios, where, in most cases, the mastering engineer is working on a stereo wav file and is limited on how he/she are able to control certain dynamics that should have been taken care of in the mix.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

Facebook. I needed a break from this place for awhile. And I'm pretty much done with A&A.

I can see that. Never went there, and now I know why...

[noisewreck]

There are times I use multiband compression on synth parts where I have a filter with high resonance sweep going on, covering a wide range of frequencies. As the filter hits the frequencies of natural harmonics in the sound, the resonance tends to jump out more than at other frequencies, in which case MBC comes in handy as it just targets the area where the resonance is.

[noisewreck]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

Just to be pedantic, I'd like to point out that a compressor is not an "effect." It's a dynamics processor. An effect would be something time-based like delay or chorus.

It depends. Most of the time I use my UAD 1176LN more as an effect than really for compression purposes. For example, it has a nice way of distorting synth bass lines, dirtying them enough to give them some character. Since these are synth parts, there aren't any dynamics issues per se, at least none that couldn't be dealt by other means (for example editing MIDI velocity values).

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

.
The main point is that the recording world seemed to do just fine before they came along.

Hi Glenn, You could say this about many things in the audio world. ie: digital recording, autotune, powered speakers, midi, etc. that list can go on and on...

Originally Posted by Massive Master

Rarely ever comes in handy - Certainly not on anything that actually sounds good...

What are the things that contribute to a MB being useless? They can be used in many instances where you would be doing something as simple as a side chain on a conventional compressor which is done quite a bit. I guess I'm just interested to hear some reasons why they are so hated or undesirable?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

Hi Glenn, You could say this about many things in the audio world. ie: digital recording, autotune, powered speakers, midi, etc. that list can go on and on...

Absolutely. It'd do folks well in general to remember things like that on occasion and not fall into the gear slut syndrome so easily.

Though some things actually address problems or solve solutions more distinctly than others. For example, we did fine without MIDI, as long as we had access to a multitude musicians. But for those without that resource access or the budget for such access, MIDI is a real godsend. Similarly, the digital format opens up a whole new magnitude of manipulative possibilities that are just not logistically feasable with analog.

Multiband compression, OTOH, doesn't really solve any real issues that couldn't satisfactorily be dealt with before their advent. It's not like engineers were sitting around saying, "Man, I can't wait until someone comes along and invents the technology to allow for multiband compression, because it could really make my life so much better." As mentioned earlier, the basic technology was available as early as the 60s, as it was used in the major noise reduction schemes. Yet it took some 25-30 years or so after that before we started seeing it's common use as it's own general processing tool. Why? because there was no real need for it.

In fact, it's not a totally unreasonable argument to say that MBC has encouraged a decline in studio technique rather than cause an improvement. As Massive said, there's not much need for MBC on a mix that actually sounds good, and Shred said, that it's useful for fixing problems in stereo mixdowns that should have been fixed in the mix and not in mastering. If people would listen to the engineers before them and actually learn how to mix instead of listening to a bunch of marketing dweebs and skipping the mixing process altogether only to try and fix their mix in mastering, we wouldn't even be having this thread.

G.

[Waltz Mastering]

I hear ya, There are a lot of things that are at our disposal that aren't needed as a necessity. The advent of "stereo" took well over 50 years to catch on.

In the perfect world if all audio mixes sounded good from the get go, we wouldn't need any tools in mastering or even the profession at all.

.. but I'm tying to see where the real disdain for the use of MB comes from?
It seems on the internets there is a real dislike for these but I have yet to hear a real reason why?

The only one excuse or reason that even comes close is: Crossover points? There's crossover in every eq. There's crossover in every speaker configuration. If the gear is designed properly, this is a non issue and invisible to the user?

How are they not used on anything that sounds good. They are.

[legionserial]

Originally Posted by DrewPeterson7

I guess what I was trying to get at, and I think a bunch of you have answered this, is if there was eer a situation where I found some problem frequencies on a, say, acoustic guitar track around, oh, hell, 600hz, under what situation would I be better off pulling up a multi-band compressor instead of an EQ notch there. And, I guess the answer would be that it'd be a good idea if it was only a problem for part of the performance, but not all

Even then you could just use automation on your EQ.