Pretty Steamed With Gibson...

[stevieb]

Yeah, I know everybody's pissed with Fender for the outrageous, unjustified, across-the-board price increase, and I do understand. But I am not a big fan of Gibson right now, either.

A young man asked me to change a pickup in his Epiphone SG. He's got 498T he wants in place of the bridge pup. But the new pup has no installation directions. No biggie, methinks. To the internet... and Gibson, such considerate people that they are, even puts a "Download the wiring diagram" link at the bottom of the page about that pup. Thing is, it is the SAME FREAKING WIRING DIAGRAM AS THE P-94'S WHICH ARE FREAKING SINGLE COIL PICKUPS. Totally useless. Under Support," and "tech tips," they do have a how-to, but it is POORLY written. Sure, I figured it out, but how is it they hire technical writers who can't find their own butts with both hands?

Baaaaaaaaahhhhhh.

[Light]

If I remember correctly, the 498T is a two wire pickup, so it is, in fact, wired exactly like a single coil pickup. Why would it matter if there were two coils or one? It doesn't.

That being said, if the Gibson ones are hard to understand, you should go over to the Seymour Duncan site - their wiring diagrams are the easiest to understand that I've seen.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[DrewPeterson7]

FWIW, not to totally defend Fender here, but they've kept their prices where they were for years now. A $250 increase on a Strat out of the blue seems like a lot, but it's not THAT far above their prior price, inflation adjusted, and five to eight years down the road when they contemplate their next increase, it might even come out to less. Time value of money and whatnot.

I mean, a good stock American Strat for $1250 is still a pretty good bang-for-buck if you want a name brand single coil axe. Though, the real benefit is it makes Warmoth partscasters seem that much more cost effective.

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by Light

If I remember correctly, the 498T is a two wire pickup, so it is, in fact, wired exactly like a single coil pickup. Why would it matter if there were two coils or one? It doesn't.

That being said, if the Gibson ones are hard to understand, you should go over to the Seymour Duncan site - their wiring diagrams are the easiest to understand that I've seen.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

If the pickups are stock pickups in a Gibson, they are 2 conductor. If they were Gibson pickups purchased seperately they are 4 conductor. Wiring diagrams come with the pickups that are purchased seperately. If you want 2 conductor wiring with the 4 conductor pickups you have to solder the green and white together. The bare ground wire and the black get connected to the ground on the back of the potentiometer, and the red goes to the correct lug on the same potentiometer which should be the volume. I hope this helps.
Victory Pete

[stevieb]

UPDATE: I figured out the wiring (appreciate the help, here, even tho I was a little ahead of it) and put the pup in. And the damn thing has far LESS output than the Epi I took out. Output goes up a bit when I touch the white wire to the back of the same pot the black and bares are soldered to, but the guitar has a serious hum that never goes away. To make it worse, some yahoo rewired the thing once before- I have no idea who- probably a good thing- if I did, he would be dead and I would be in prison... 'cause he did a horrible job. I should rewire it correctly, but I am just so over this thing. Already did a setup on it- for free- and the young man who owns it can only pay me $20 for installing the pup. I don't mind helping him out, but not at the expense of my own sanity and serenity, both of which are presently in hiding. Yesterday, I just buttoned it up and brought it back to him, telling him that he's a good kid, but really, I never want to see that guitar again.

Last Sunday, I sent THIS to Gibson:

To:
customersupport@gibson.com
Your website directs me to the wiring diagram for P-94-r and -T pickups, when I click on the link for the wiring diagram for a 498T. Further, your How-to's on your website are VERY confusing, and leave out obvious pits of information: it mentions "terminals," without saying therminals on WHAT. Frankly, this is NOT inspiring a whole lot of faith in your company- who the hell wrote that, anyway? You need to CAN his sorry ass. Can you please email me the CORRECT wiring diagram?

Thank you.


Yesterday, before I threw in the towel, I sent this to Gibson:

From: steveboudreaux@yahoo.com [steveboudreaux@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:01 PM
To: Todd Money
Subject: VERY Poor Response- Is THIS How Gibson Treats It's Customers?

Actually, I should say NO response.

An email sent to your company on May 17, 2009 (four days ago) has not been answered. I have tried calling your company's repair department, and only get voice mail- and again, no none seems to care enough to even return the call. Your website's wiring diagram for a 498T shows it as having two wires, when replacement 498T's have four.

By going to a competitor's website, I figured out how to wire YOUR pickup, but it has LOWER OUTPUT than either the stock Epiphone "HOTCH(G)" bridge it replaced, or the stock Epiphone neck still installed. It's output is VERY low unless I solder the GREEN lead from it to the same pot the BLACK and BARE leads are soldered to.

And still no one cares enough to return my calls. Fender has a toll-free support number. I have never been on hold for very long. Semour Duncan does not have a toll-free number, but the are good at taking calls. RETURNED CALLS HAVE NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE WITH EITHER OF THOSE COMPANIES, BECAUSE THEY MANAGE TO TAKE MY CALLS, YET SOMEHOW, YOU COMPANY NEITHER TAKES MY CALLS, NOR RETURNS MY MESSAGES.

I am still waiting for answers to my questions. Somehow, I get the feeling I will be waiting for a very, very long time.


And this morning, I get this from Gibson:

Steve,
I'm sorry if you've not yet had a response. I searched all the emails in our mailbox and haven't found one from your email address. The one you sent to me is the first I've seen from you. I'm not sure what's happened but at any rate, if you will call Customer Service at 800-4-GIBSON or customerservice@gibson.com<mailto:cu...ice@gibson.com> they'll be happy to email you a wiring diagram for a 4 wire Gibson pickup. We are an instrument repair and restoration facility while Customer Service exists to provide exactly the kind of service you seek.
thanks,
Todd


All phone numbers and email addresses came from Gibson- yeah, maybe different departments, but all sourced from the same Gibson webpage. If they are going to put the info on the same page, how the hell am I to know it goes to different depatments?? And the 800 number was not anywhere I looked... Well, I finally found it, under FAQ/Counterfeit Guitars.

So, I come away from this disgusting experience with the strong suspicion that Gibson is happy to make and sell overpriced guitars to people with too much money (the ROBOT???? Give me a fuckin' BREAK!), but they don't give half a damn about support or service.

... Well, I finally found the 800 number, under FAQ/Counterfeit Guitars. This just reinforces my belief that Gibson is ONLY interested in raking in the money- more concerned about someone spending their money elsewhere, than keeping existing suckers... er, I mean customers, happy. Yeah, I have since learned it's elsewhere in their site, and the wiring diagram includes other info, but, too late. I am DONE.

FINAL UPDATE: JUST now got a phone call from Gibson- finally! 24 hours after I called them, in desperation because at least one department is not in the habit of returning emails. Also about 12 hours too late- by now, I have returned the guitar to it's owner and washed my hands of it- and probably Gibson, too. Perhaps I am being hasty- but I just don't care, anymore. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression- and my first impression of Gibson's support was a very unflattering one.

[CMunch]

Anyone explain this one while we are at it,last year I ordered an SG Standard mail orderI know,anyway what arrived was basically a turd in a nice fluffy white lined case.The guitar had many faults..

The nut was cut so deeply High E and B strings touching first fret.

SERIOUS amount of fillers around inlays.

Neck had a dry discolored spot about two inches long and half inch wide.

Rear cover plate was about 4mm smaller than routing all the way round,can only guess how much of a hold the screws had.

Heel roughly shaped,chainsaw rough!

Sent it back and asked for a replacement.Company sent another,replacement was so bad it was laughable,especially the inlays miles off the centre of the neck,did I say MILESAnyhoo decided to contact Gibson this time,while gettin info together I did the online datey checker thing.
WTF? this thing was stamped FOUR days before I received it,emmm its stamped before spraying isn`t it? and remember I live in UK,does nitro cure in about 15 minutes now.
Despite repeated contact they would talk to me but refused to comment on issues and changed subject the second I mentioned date.

Could it be they are stamped ahead like when they know they will be ready for sale?if so why not just say so and address issues?

Anyhoo the customer service is on a par with the firewood they sell and they can kiss my ass.

[Victory Pete]

It seems like the 498T must have been bad. If you got more output by grounding the coil tap wires, Green and white, one of the coils must have been partially open. when you grounded the green wire it connected just the one good coil. It wouldnt be as loud as a full humbucker, but It would be louder than the defective coil in series with the good coil. Just a possibility. Yeah Gibson is to big for their britches these days. Customer support is terrible all across the board!
VP

[stevieb]

Got a call today from macdaddy.com, where the kid bought the pup. Yep, it's defective.

[noah330]

I ordered a Custom Shop SG, waited over a year and it came with the headstock popped off.

Oh well.

I like Gibson and Fender too.

[Victory Pete]

I had the same problem with an SG-62 I had for years, It happened from rough handling with the strings tuned up to pitch. Gibsons should only be shipped with the strings loose. UPS doesnt help either, they are like gorillas! The angle of the headstock/neck joint is very weak, If it gets bumped hard the string tension will break the wood grain.
VP

[YeshuasFan]

Being an acoustic player, I obviously don't have much to add in terms of commenting on the Gibson electrics and their parts, but I've never been impressed with their acoustics.
15 years ago I had an opportunity to pick up a '62 Hummingbird for less than $500 at an estate sale. My brother-in-law was strongly urging me to buy it--until we both played the thing. The thing had less tone/resonance/whatever than a $250.00 Yamaha. At the time I was playing a plywood Vantage I'd picked up as a beater for $150 that had better tone.
Since then I've had several opportunities to play different models of Gibson acoustic guitars. They all sound the same--somewhere between a ukulele and a Emenee plastic (as in toy) guitar. Even the rosewood b/s models sound dead.

[darrin_h2000]

The best tones Ive heard in an acoustic guitar were from a Yamaha Compass Series...it doesnt suprise me...but you were still a fool not to pick that up...resale is the word here.

[Light]

Originally Posted by YeshuasFan

Being an acoustic player, I obviously don't have much to add in terms of commenting on the Gibson electrics and their parts, but I've never been impressed with their acoustics.
15 years ago I had an opportunity to pick up a '62 Hummingbird for less than $500 at an estate sale. My brother-in-law was strongly urging me to buy it--until we both played the thing. The thing had less tone/resonance/whatever than a $250.00 Yamaha. At the time I was playing a plywood Vantage I'd picked up as a beater for $150 that had better tone.
Since then I've had several opportunities to play different models of Gibson acoustic guitars. They all sound the same--somewhere between a ukulele and a Emenee plastic (as in toy) guitar. Even the rosewood b/s models sound dead.

You just haven't tried the right one. Trust me, when you play a great Gibson, it's like a religious experience - great guitars.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[YeshuasFan]

Originally Posted by Light

You just haven't tried the right one. Trust me, when you play a great Gibson, it's like a religious experience - great guitars.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Light,
I'll have to take your word for it since I have neither the time nor $$ to invest in that search. Right now I'm still in love with the Breedlove I picked up for under $1k last fall. It has a nice percussive boom reminescent of the '69 Martin D-35 a friend let me play for 10 minutes 35 years ago. Listen to "Heart of Gold" by Neil Young and you'll hear the sound I'm talking about.

And before I forget, I really learn a lot about guitar maintenance and construction from reading your posts. Thanks and keep up the good work.

I'll have to figure out how to give you some rep points