Stick size relative to cymbal thickness?

[Dani Pace]

The drummer in the same band as my son just got new cymbals (Sabian B8s) and is quite pleased with the sound he gets from them. He prefers to use 7A sticks, his bandmates are insisting that he use larger sticks, 1A or larger (if there are larger.) My concern (and his) is will the larger sticks be more likely to damage the cymbals any faster than lighter sticks? I can hear a difference, mostly attack, when he uses larger sticks, but he has far better control when he uses the smaller sticks. He does like to place the cymbals a bit high and plays on the edges (sawdust all over the floor after a practice session) more than playing the tips on the surface area of the cymbals. Any comments from any seasoned drummers about the effect of heavy sticks vs light sticks on the life of cymbals might help to settle this issue, thanks in advance. By the way, these guys play mostly fairly hard core sort of music, not quite metal but pretty gritty stuff.

[drossfile]

this all comes down to style of playing, not stick size. some guys like to bash their drums/cymbals like they're trying to win some kind of strongman competition. there's no practical reason for it at all. i play pretty heavy stuff, and have never broken or cracked a cymbal. lots of sawdust on my kit too.

i recently saw a travis barker video and he was wailing on the drums like he caught them banging his wife. a lot of ppl seem to think he's great, but i can't see any difference between him and tommy lee. they beat the crap out of their equipment and i find it to just be plain stupid.

besides, why would he even take into consideration what his bandmates want him to use? he's the drummer, right? does he tell them what picks and strings to use???

he should play whatever he's comfortable with. if he has more control with a lighter stick (i do too, btw), there is absolutely NO argument to be made in favor of using tree trunks.

[Greg_L]

I use heavy sticks and beat my drums hard...........but I go easy on my cymbals. Cymbals don't sound better the harder you hit them. Tell the drummer to use whatever he likes and tell everyone else to go to hell.

[TamaSabian]

Cymbals sound better depending on how you hit them.

[Rimshot]

This is an interesting question. I usually choose sticks of a different type or tip to get a different sound from my cymbals. I'll use a nylon tip when I want a sharper attack on the ride, or a round ball tip when I want a more metallic clangy sound, dtandard wood tips for warmer softness. In terms of volume, it IS how you hit first amd foremost.

BTW Sabian B8's are not very good cymbals no matter how you hit them

[PhilGood]

I think its more about that he'll change with age. 7A is kind of a beginner's stick. Its small and gets hard to hang on to and control, especially with heavier volume music. A larger stick will be harder to deal with at first, but will improve muscle strength and dexterity, which will help later in controlling cymbal volume. Most good drummers develop a feel between hands and ears and know how to make each individual instrument speak on its own. Rarely is everything hit at the same volume or strength.

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by TamaSabian

Cymbals sound better depending on how you hit them.

or worse.

[Supercreep]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

ITell the drummer to use whatever he likes and tell everyone else to go to hell.

^^^This^^^^

[MidiPunk]

Right tool for the job.

I've broken two favourite cymbals, a 20" 1940's paper-thin Zildjian, and an 18" Paiste Sound Formula Full Crash. Still have both in a closet somewhere... Devastating.

Here's what I learned, haven't broken any since:

Buy a couple sacks of the tallest cymbal stand sleeves when buying heads. Replace as often as necessary. The little pile of black plastic on bell of cymbal is a hint.

Leave the stand nut off. If cymbal falls off don't hit it so hard, something has to give.

[TamaSabian]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

or worse.

yep, you´re right.
Bandmates can suggest which stick to use, the final decision is on the drummer. The size of the stick won´t hurt any cymbal, the way they´re hit will do. The drummer has to find how hard to hit the cymbal in order to make it sound good.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by MidiPunk

Leave the stand nut off. If cymbal falls off don't hit it so hard, something has to give.

You're joking, right????

[Supercreep]

I just lay my cymbals on the carpet. No way I'm letting them fall, and hitting them is just too risky.


































Seriously, you guys are over thinking this stuff. If you're breaking a lot of cymbals, you're just doing it wrong.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Supercreep

I just lay my cymbals on the carpet. No way I'm letting them fall, and hitting them is just too risky.
Seriously, you guys are over thinking this stuff. If you're breaking a lot of cymbals, you're just doing it wrong.

No kidding. I gig pretty much every week end, practice all week, record, etc. and I'm known to hit my drums hard....and I haven't broken a cymbal in 10 years, or more. I don't remember the last time I cracked a cymbal. Probably when I was a beginner. All these "solutions" are a joke. Learn to play.

[Rimshot]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

7A is kind of a beginner's stick. Its small and gets hard to hang on to and control,

What the hell are you talking about? I use mostly Vic Firth 7A's and sometimes even the AJN's. Sticks are chosen for the way they give you the sound you want. It's not a power training exercise and you're not training to hit your drums out of the park! Unless you are playing Death Metal all of the time or if you're playing a field drum in a drum line, there's no necessity to play with baseball bats. You can if you want to. I occasionally use a 5A or a 5B when I want a heavier stick or if I'm covering heavy rock (then I have to raise my cymbal stands over my head and tilt my rack tom heads almost 45 degrees)
Guys like Jeff "Tain" Watts also only uses Firth 7A's and he's an animal on his kit.

[drossfile]

Originally Posted by Rimshot

What the hell are you talking about? I use mostly Vic Firth 7A's and sometimes even the AJN's. Sticks are chosen for the way they give you the sound you want. It's not a power training exercise and you're not training to hit your drums out of the park! Unless you are playing Death Metal all of the time or if you're playing a field drum in a drum line, there's no necessity to play with baseball bats. You can if you want to. I occasionally use a 5A or a 5B when I want a heavier stick or if I'm covering heavy rock (then I have to raise my cymbal stands over my head and tilt my rack tom heads almost 45 degrees)
Guys like Jeff "Tain" Watts also only uses Firth 7A's and he's an animal on his kit.

i find this a bit mystifying too. hell, i can barely tell the difference between a 7a and 5a (although the 5a is my go-to stick, promark nylon tip if you wanna get all specific about it). 2bn is as big as i'll go, and i maintain that the heaviest of metal requires no heavier stick than the subtlest of jazz drummers (keep in mind we're talking sticks, not brushes or "hot sticks" or what have you). a heavier stick does not facilitate a harder hit, at least in my microcosm. heavier playing is just that--heavier playing, not heavier sticks.

i know philgood is a good drummer, experienced musician, and knows what he's talking about. i'd like to hear a more specific rationale behind his statement. i have an old beat up pair of 7a wood tip sticks sitting behind my kit as an emergency backup (i've come to LOATHE wood tips), and i just compared them to my go-tos to back up my post: the only perceptible difference is in length, and even that is only about a half inch.

[PhilGood]

Did you guys miss the "kind of" part?

7As are what they hand out and package when you get that Ludwig Acrolyte snare drum when you first start playing. Then you usually move on to something else. Personally I don't think I'll ever handle 7As again, but of course they're a useful stick. All sticks have a purpose.

The OP had mentioned the heavier music style which requires high volume. I don't know about you guys, but 7A wouldn't be my stick of choice.

How many of you ended up playing the same sticks as when you first started playing?

Hows that working out for ya?

[Rimshot]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Did you guys miss the "kind of" part?

7As are what they hand out and package when you get that Ludwig Acrolyte snare drum when you first start playing.

How many of you ended up playing the same sticks as when you first started playing?

Hows that working out for ya?

So........... we all started out with 7A's and a Ludwig Acrolite snare drum, eh?
Sorry child, but when I started drumming there weren't any of those drums around yet. I began with these "stupid big" field drum sticks and then as the Brit Invasion happened I got into rock music and played bigger sticks and then I got very into jazz drumming and playing with more acoustic instruments and the sticks got smaller and my playing became subtler. I understand the concept that different folks use different types of sticks depending on their artistic choice, do you?

[isfahani]

jeebus <rolls eyes>

[Dani Pace]

Thanks for the replys, your comments have helped to make a point that it's more about technique and style, rather than size. (I know someone is gonna have a snide remark about that) These guys are young and inexperienced and I'm just trying to help them avoid a few of the mistakes I made over the years. Now I've got to get the idea across that louder does not always mean better.

BTW the drummer in my band uses 7A sticks, and has been using them since anout 1975 and he is certainly not a beginner.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by Rimshot

So........... we all started out with 7A's and a Ludwig Acrolite snare drum, eh?
Sorry child, but when I started drumming there weren't any of those drums around yet. I began with these "stupid big" field drum sticks and then as the Brit Invasion happened I got into rock music and played bigger sticks and then I got very into jazz drumming and playing with more acoustic instruments and the sticks got smaller and my playing became subtler. I understand the concept that different folks use different types of sticks depending on their artistic choice, do you?

Lol. Why are you getting so defensive? It's just fucking sticks, dude. Philgood didn't mean anything bad.


Personally, I'd rather use just about anything other than a 7A. Those are like drumming with toothpicks.

[Supercreep]

Originally Posted by Rimshot

What the hell are you talking about? I use mostly Vic Firth 7A's and sometimes even the AJN's.

Pfffff. Noob.

[PhilGood]

I forgot to mention that if you use 7As you are about the biggest wuss ever!

That's why they call the 7A, "The best stick for wussies"!

Most likely, if you use 7As you probably suck at drums and just don't know it because people are just too polite to tell you. All folks who use 7As should give up immediately. Sepuku is the honorable way.


Getting a little more defensive yet?


Hows that selective reading working out?

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by Rimshot

So........... we all started out with 7A's and a Ludwig Acrolite snare drum, eh?
Sorry child, but when I started drumming there weren't any of those drums around yet. I began with these "stupid big" field drum sticks and then as the Brit Invasion happened I got into rock music and played bigger sticks and then I got very into jazz drumming and playing with more acoustic instruments and the sticks got smaller and my playing became subtler. I understand the concept that different folks use different types of sticks depending on their artistic choice, do you?[/img]

Well, by the time I started playing they had figured out how to take the bark off and begin developing the stick as an actual tool.

Hows that condescending attitude workin' for ya?

[PhilGood]

Rimshot, (if that is your real name...and I bet its not) you're being way too sensitive about this. Of course I think a 7A is a good stick. Its just not for me and hasn't been for 26 years. If you use it, GREAT!! If any artists use it GREAT! The right tool for the right job!

I completely agree it depends on the music and the artist. Nothing wrong at all with using 7As. Give me a break and lighten up!

BUT, because of your defensive attitude to a personal statement, and just because you now deserve to have shit given unto you...

Here is a list of the worlds greatest drummers who use 7A:



































.

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by Rimshot

So........... we all started out with 7A's and a Ludwig Acrolite snare drum, eh?
Sorry child, but when I started drumming there weren't any of those drums around yet. I began with these "stupid big" field drum sticks and then as the Brit Invasion happened I got into rock music and played bigger sticks and then I got very into jazz drumming and playing with more acoustic instruments and the sticks got smaller and my playing became subtler. I understand the concept that different folks use different types of sticks depending on their artistic choice, do you?

I love how you quoted me for this response, but deleted these lines in the quote:

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Did you guys miss the "kind of" part?

Personally I don't think I'll ever handle 7As again, but of course they're a useful stick. All sticks have a purpose.