New to miking drums, I have some, what else is needed?

[Mr Fruit]

Ok, i have a 5 piece kit set up, and i need to think about mic's.

Ill be recording it with a fostex R8, via a fostex 8 track mixer, i like the analogue thing, and its what ive got whether i like it or not.

Anyway, i have 2 Rode NT1's which i was thinking of using as overheads. I dont want to spend loads, as every quid i spend on mics, is one that i cant spend on other bits, like mic leads other leads and beer....all of which i still need.

my questions are:

1. Will i be able to get a decent sound with just these....remember im new to recording, so ill be learning as I go.

2.I cant run phantom power on my desk with dynamics-its either on or off, so ive got to use the Rodes, and other condensers I presume....Is there any way round this? other than buying a completely new set up of dynamic mics?

3.Where is the best place, to place overhead mics?(dont say overhead!)

4.If i were to buy another couple of mics (ive read the idiots guide sticky at the top) so I had 4 mics-presuming your going to tell me theres a way i can combine phantom and non phantom powered mics, which should i buy? im a guitarist originally, and ill need a guitar mic, so i was hoping maybe a sm57 cold be employed as 1 of the other drum mics, so that I could use that to mic my amp later on.

5. Am i talking shit, and should I just forget about it, and see what happens.


thanks.....

[stevieb]

SM57 would work well as a snare mic, prob. as a tom mic, too. With careful setting, you might get it to mic all three, if you have a lot of patience. A Shure Beta 56A would be better, and it can work fine as a acoustic guitar, guitar amp, harmonica or vocal mic.

A Shure Beta 52 is a good kick drum mic.

Beta are more expensive than comparable Shures, but are more robust and reliable- they can take abuse much better. If you need to save some bread, the SM's may be better for you than the Beta's, esp. if you know you will take care of them.

[ermghoti]

Overheads: try the Rodes, google "recorderman."

Phantom power: just turn the phantom on. Phantom power won't hurt anything except for some rare ribbon mics you'll not likely encounter. Turn off phantom before plugging in or unplugging anything, "hot plugging" can damage some mics..

Snare: 57 is fine. Learn to place it.

Kick: I have a Audix D-6 and a couple of Audio Technia ATM 25s. The ATM25 is discontinued, but a great, natural-sounding kick/bass mic, takes EQ well, also works on toms, voice, well, lots of stuff, as long as the source isn't too quiet. I hear them called a poor man's 421. They turn up for as low as $75, but I'd happily pay $100-125 for a clean one.

The D-6 is aggressively pre-Eqed, great for live work and hard rock/metal, but you can tame it with EQ.

I only use four mics for drums, unless somebody else forces me to use more.

[Dogbreath]

yeah...what he said...

Ermghoti pretty much said it and the only thing I'd like to add is while you're googling Recorderman...also try the Glyn Johns method.

Both methods sound fine with 3 mics but I add a snare mic as well. I think I found a video clip of a couple of guys with one of the set ups mentioned. Pretty good at showin ya what they did.

And don't get too frustrated when your first recording doesn't sound so hot. Drums can be kinda hard to get down.

Luck man...
Kel

[Greg_L]

Read my "article" and see if it helps.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=273077

[Mr Fruit]

Yeah, i did read it greg, it was a good post, but maybe i didnt take it all in.

Ill have a look at those links suggested, and see how i get on.
Thanks for all the replies chaps!

[jab2980]

Originally Posted by ermghoti

Overheads: try the Rodes, google "recorderman."

Kick: I have a Audix D-6 and a couple of Audio Technia ATM 25s. The ATM25 is discontinued, but a great, natural-sounding kick/bass mic, takes EQ well, also works on toms, voice, well, lots of stuff, as long as the source isn't too quiet. I hear them called a poor man's 421. They turn up for as low as $75, but I'd happily pay $100-125 for a clean one.

I've actually got three brand new ATM-250's which are the update to the 25. They're the same, if not warmer sounding. I use it on my kick and it sounds great.... they're right when they say you don't need to use any EQ on it. I only needed one, but I was so happy when I finally found them sold for under $180 I went and bought three of em. PM me if you guys want one.... I've got one for each of ya

Back to the subject, you've already received all the advice you need. Keep it simple and natural sounding. Start with the 2 mic overhead "recorderman" sound and tweak it to fit your room. You're gonna get good sounds just from this. From here, the next step I'd take would be to mic up the snare with one of the dynamics you'll see suggested a million times on here (sm57, I-5, etc), and finally get a kick mic. I'd would also highly recommend the ATM-250, ATM-25, or Audix D-6.

[RAMI]

You've got good info so far in this thread.

The only thing I'd disagree with is what a few people have suggested you mic 3rd (after the 2 overheads). I'd add a kik mic before I'd add a snare mic (Of course, I'd add both, but if I only had the choice of one or the other, I'd go kik before snare).

In the recordeman and Glyn Johns, you get pleanty of snare. It's the kik you'll find lacking when trying to cut through a mix, if you don't mic it.

EDIT: Never mind, I'm an idiot. Both those methods already include a kik mic. Now I understand why everyone was suggesting adding a snare mic. Sorry....carry on.

[Mr Fruit]

Thanks again for the replies.

Thats great, as it seems to be confirming what I wanted to hear, raher than telling me its impossible.

So......just to confirm, its ok to run phantom power on sm57's etc, as long as i dont hotplug them?

If so, i can just get on with ordering one, and getting on the lookout for a half decent kick drum mic.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Mr Fruit

So......just to confirm, its ok to run phantom power on sm57's etc,

Yes, that's why they named it "phantom". It's there if you need it, and invisible if you don't.

[Mr Fruit]

Brilliant. Thanks for the reply. My friend has a digital desk (boooh!) and he has had the same problem, in fact it was him who told me that his desk wouldnt run both together, and has had problems because of it, so when i saw on my fostex desk a light display for Phantom power On/Off i thought i would have the same problem.

Thats good news then.

[ermghoti]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Yes, that's why they named it "phantom". It's there if you need it, and invisible if you don't.

Really? I thought it was because it provided power without an additional cable.

"WHERE IS TEH ELECTRICITY COMING FROM? WHAT MANNER OF WITCHERY IS THIS?"

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by ermghoti

Really? I thought it was because it provided power without an additional cable.

You mean, like a battery??????

[jab2980]

Originally Posted by Mr Fruit

So......just to confirm, its ok to run phantom power on sm57's etc, as long as i dont hotplug them?

.

You got it - I'd make sure you leave your phantom power off for at least a minute before plugging unplugging into any of the powered jacks. Studies show that not doing this increases the risk of preamp cancer.

I would be highly, HIGHLY skeptical of any sm57 you buy on eBay. There are many fakes out there - even ones with legitimate lookign boxes and padded cases. On the other hand, I'd never buy a new 57 ... they are like cockroaches if cockroaches were handy and had a mid freq bump.

[Mr Fruit]

Yes Ive heard that too, ill try to go to a dealer, or maybe look on here for some.

By that last comment i presume your not keen on sm57's?

[stevieb]

Originally Posted by jab2980

...I'd never buy a new 57 ... they are like cockroaches if cockroaches were handy and had a mid freq bump.

Ahhhh!

Cassette tapes are the cockroaches of the audio world.

Diskettes are the cockroaches of the digital world.

And SM57's are the cockroaches of the... recording world?

LONG LIVE THE COCKROACHES. (Yeah, like they need my help.)

[Dogbreath]

I think 57's do just fine.

I've used em on the grill on a cranked up cab, snare, toms and a small club for the occasional beating.

Good stuff.

[jab2980]

Originally Posted by Mr Fruit

Yes Ive heard that too, ill try to go to a dealer, or maybe look on here for some.

By that last comment i presume your not keen on sm57's?

No no haha.. thats why I said "handy." What I mean is that they'll never die! You can buy a used one that is scratched up, dented, dropped, called bad names and it will work like the day it was born. My point was to go for a used one that you know is genuine.

[ermghoti]

Originally Posted by RAMI

You mean, like a battery??????

Exactly like that, except in mics without battery compartments.

[SteveCPerrino]

here are some good mics you might wanna invest in:

Kick: Audix D6
Snare: SM57
Toms: Sennheiser e604's
your overheads are good

those mics should get you a good drum sound once you practice with placement and whatnot.