Digital efx with analog gear

[poor_boy_record]

Hello everyone. I am currently using " all " analog gear : Teac A-3340S r2r, Teac Model 3 and 5 sound boards, AN-300 Dolby noise unit, etc. I was wondering if I could use a Digital Effects unit with this setup without hurting anything.

[jjones1700]

I was wondering the same thing. I've got a TC Electronics C-300 and M-350 compressor/reverb/delay units that I know aren't analog, but have been using them in the meantime, regardless. Once I really start learning the ins and outs of recording, I'll start diving into the full analog outboard setup. The only thing is, I haven't a clue what equipment is analog and what is digital, as far as outboard effects units. I think Tascam had an analog reverb unit, but that's as much as I know about vintage effects gear.

[Dr ZEE]

Originally Posted by poor_boy_record

I was wondering if I could use a Digital Effects unit with this setup without hurting anything.

Yes you could. And you can.

[poor_boy_record]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the help.

[nate_dennis]

yeah I know you got the answer already, but . . . .

I run an alesis digital reverb through the effects loop of my TASCAM 488 mk2 with no problems at all. Just thought I'd add to the "yes" chorus.

[sweetbeats]

Surely.

This was discussed in another thread recently too...same basic question.

In most cases when we are talking about effects we are talking about send effects, not insert effects so you still have a percentage of the "dry" unaffected signal coming through. So for analog purists there is still digitally affected audio when using digital effects processors in that way. For the rest of us who use whatever we like or have available/can get our hands on there is still the anchoring analog source material in the mix.

I have a Roland DC-30 analog delay/chorus unit with a feedback loop that will overdrive the effect so I like to use that for dub stuff, and I've also got a Tascam RS-20B dual stereo spring reverb unit that just sounds nice with just about anything. But then I've also got my Yamaha 01X digital mixer/control surface/computer interface that has two stereo effects engines in it and I use that for all kinds of stuff too.

So you're not going to hurt anything, and when I'm discussing the "analog purist" above I'm talking about the person who just plain prefers the sound of analog effects with their analog material or who otherwise wants to keep everything "analog".

I haven't a clue what equipment is analog and what is digital, as far as outboard effects units. I think Tascam had an analog reverb unit, but that's as much as I know about vintage effects gear.

Lots available on both sides of the fence, but certainly the analog effects are pricier and there are more units that weren't rackmount and many have seen hard lives. Anything in particular you are looking for? I mean, that's the thing...for me anyway, when I got the DC-30 it was because I wanted to be able to put overdriven echo in my dub mixes and I couldn't afford a Space Echo, but I found the DC-30 which actually sounds pretty good. Not a tape delay. Same thing with the spring reverb. I wanted to be able to get the spring 'verb *poink* in my dub mixes on snare pops and I found a Boss RX-100...a year or so ago I saw the Tascam unit come up on eBay...I'd never seen one...didn't know they existed until I saw that listing but I snapped it up because it was clearly hand over fist better than the Boss unit. So anyway I got them for a particular sound. Otherwise digital effects have been great to work with. Very flexible and relatively a bargain.

RS-20B (above the patchbay):

[poor_boy_record]

thanks Sweet. sorry if there was another thread on this subject. I searched the site and came up with nothing on this so posted this msg. As for analog vs digital, I would very much prefer the analog over digital and up til now have came up with no luck so went for the digital until I "can" find some more of the analog stuff i need. And, still being a newbie to recording, I have no idea what name brands to look for in alalog. Thanks again.

[jpmorris]

Originally Posted by poor_boy_record

still being a newbie to recording, I have no idea what name brands to look for in alalog. Thanks again.

The 'name brands' are expensive. Studer, Otari and Ampex to name a few. The Otari 24-tracks seem to routinely go for a couple of thousand pounds.
I saw an MTR-90 mk2 going for about £500, and I'll admit I was tempted, but it weighs half a metric ton and the running costs will very steep. Here, 2" tape fetches about £130 a pop (plus tax), and twice that for the ATR stuff.

Unless you can justify the cost of high-end pro gear, 1/2" or 1" Tascam is probably the way to go. Multitrack machines to consider include:

Fostex R8 (8-track 1/4")
Fostex E16/G16 (16-track 1/2")
Tascam 80-8, 38, 48, 58, ATR 60-8, TSR-8 (8-track 1/2")
Tascam MSR-16 (16-track 1/2")
Tascam MS-16, ATR 60-16 (16-track 1")
Tascam 388 (8-track 1/4")
Otari 5050-8 (8-track 1/2")
Revox C278 (8-track 1/2")

2-track mixdown machines include:

Fostex E2
Fostex E22 (1/2")
Otari 5050
Tascam 22, 32, 42, BR-20
Revox PR99, B77HS
Studer A807 (these are expensive and can be finicky)
...plus a whole load of higher-end machines, too many to list...

[poor_boy_record]

Thx jp. I am familar with most of tape machines you mentioned ( admittedly not all ), but what I was talking about was the outboard gear like the reverbs reelperson was talking about, and effects, etc. Trying to keep everything analog. Since I am still in the learning process of recording I'll use my ol' Teac A-3340S until I get more of the feel of things. Thx for your reply and help. Almost forgot, I got this digital efx unit only until I can find some analog stuff like sweetbeats has. I just don't like digital.

[poor_boy_record]

Originally Posted by nate_dennis

yeah I know you got the answer already, but . . . .

I run an alesis digital reverb through the effects loop of my TASCAM 488 mk2 with no problems at all. Just thought I'd add to the "yes" chorus.

Thx nate. I need all the yeses I can get .

[jpmorris]

Originally Posted by poor_boy_record

what I was talking about was the outboard gear like the reverbs reelperson was talking about, and effects, etc. Trying to keep everything analog.

Ah, right. Try this:

Echo units:
Binson Echorec (very expensive)
Roland Space Echo (very expensive)
Maestro Echoplex (very expensive)
Watkins or WEM Copicat (relatively cheap, sold as 'Guild' in the US or something)

...there are more of course, there's another cheap one that's on the tip of my tongue. It used a tape cartridge.

You can also use a 3-head tape deck to do slapback echo. The Revox B77 can do this from the front panel (settings are in the manual) - with other decks like the Tascam 32 it will require a little creative thinking in how you attach it to the mixer etc, but it can be done.

Reverb:

Great British Spring (literally made from a drainpipe)
EMT plate reverb (These are very expensive, very heavy and very desirable)
Vestafire (stereo spring reverbs, I have one)

Chorus, phasing etc:
MXR phase 90, phase 100 (Genesis used these a lot)
Eventide Clockworks (Tomita etc -these are incredible expensive)

...again, there are a lot more, but these are the names which immediately leap out at me.

EDIT:

When I said the Binson was 'very expensive' I apparently understated it. I've just seen a rebuilt/reconditioned one going on ebay for £3500.

[dodgeaspen]

No problem with using digital processor etc. I have a Tascam 38 with a Fostex mixer and am using a DOD 512 multi effects processor. Everything's fine.

[poor_boy_record]

Thanks a lot everyone. You answered my question. I wanted to make sure I didn't blow anything b4 connecting. And sweet, would love to have your setup I really did not want digital as I am an alalog nut, but it's all I find at the time. Hopefully I can find ( and afford ) some analog outboard gear.

[Talldog]

Digital outboard gear takes an analog signal, digitally effects it and sends it back out as an analog signal right? The signal never actually becomes completely binary.

[sweetbeats]

AFAIK, last time I checked, signal does take an A/D/A trip when being processed by a digital efx unit...

[Dr ZEE]

...and "A/D/A trip" is an effect too
All it takes is to find a TWEAKER - the "secret" of reaching that "sweet and perfect spot of balance" between digi and anal

Where's that engineer again, the one who just discovered a tweaker between silicon and vacuum?
Ah!, here he is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3irt5yrXne4

[poor_boy_record]

Originally Posted by Dr ZEE

...and "A/D/A trip" is an effect too
All it takes is to find a TWEAKER - the "secret" of reaching that "sweet and perfect spot of balance" between digi and anal

Where's that engineer again, the one who just discovered a tweaker between silicon and vacuum?
Ah!, here he is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3irt5yrXne4

Arrr. So much to learn and so little time. I started this learning process way to late in life but thx to everyone here I might be able to get my reel to reel to spin and the meter lights to come on on the mixers. I want to tank everyone again for the help in all the forums I have posted msg's and all the help I have received.

[jjones1700]

Originally Posted by poor_boy_record

Arrr. So much to learn and so little time. I started this learning process way to late in life but thx to everyone here I might be able to get my reel to reel to spin and the meter lights to come on on the mixers. I want to tank everyone again for the help in all the forums I have posted msg's and all the help I have received.

Join the crowd man. I'm 35 and have only been dabbling with this stuff for about a year.

[poor_boy_record]

Originally Posted by jjones1700

Join the crowd man. I'm 35 and have only been dabbling with this stuff for about a year.

jj. wish i was your age again ..... you're still a youngster. I am 56 and just started dabbling with all this stuff about a year or so ago to Been a musician most of my life but new to recording. And trying to read the posts here and my posts and replies makes my head spin

[Mr Fruit]

Dont know whether were still talking about old effects, but this is nice...H+H echo head.


[/quote]

[poor_boy_record]

Originally Posted by Mr Fruit

Dont know whether were still talking about old effects, but this is nice...H+H echo head.

[/QUOTE]

Sure are talking about old effects units. I couldn't find anything so bought a digital efx unit until I can find ( afford ) one. like the unit u showed.

[jjones1700]

Originally Posted by poor_boy_record

jj. wish i was your age again ..... you're still a youngster. I am 56 and just started dabbling with all this stuff about a year or so ago to Been a musician most of my life but new to recording. And trying to read the posts here and my posts and replies makes my head spin

I'm just starting to learn how to play the guitar and bass, on top of the recording and gear addiction.

[poor_boy_record]

Originally Posted by jjones1700

I'm just starting to learn how to play the guitar and bass, on top of the recording and gear addiction.

Ahhhhh .... the gear has me addicted bad. I keep buying and buying and have some stuff i'll probably never use. Know what ya mean

[Beck]

Originally Posted by poor_boy_record

Hello everyone. I am currently using " all " analog gear : Teac A-3340S r2r, Teac Model 3 and 5 sound boards, AN-300 Dolby noise unit, etc. I was wondering if I could use a Digital Effects unit with this setup without hurting anything.

Digital is very good for some things. Reverb is one of them. I’ve used digital reverberation of one kind or another since mid-80’s. I’ll use digital echo and delay effects as well, but have a slight preference for analog echo and chorusing.

When creating ambiance, reverb and delay shadow the dry sound so you don’t lose any analog goodness. It’s best to use an effect send from a console and blend the return with the original analog source.

On the other hand I won’t use digital for things like compression and EQ because this involves A/D/A conversion of the analog source, which defeats the purpose of an analog signal chain.

Digital is generally great for spatial effects… some you can’t get with analog devices.

[poor_boy_record]

Originally Posted by Beck

Digital is very good for some things. Reverb is one of them. I’ve used digital reverberation of one kind or another since mid-80’s. I’ll use digital echo and delay effects as well, but have a slight preference for analog echo and chorusing.

When creating ambiance, reverb and delay shadow the dry sound so you don’t lose any analog goodness. It’s best to use an effect send from a console and blend the return with the original analog source.

On the other hand I won’t use digital for things like compression and EQ because this involves A/D/A conversion of the analog source, which defeats the purpose of an analog signal chain.

Digital is generally great for spatial effects… some you can’t get with analog devices.

Thx Beck. Appreciate the help. I really wanted to keep everything analog but could find any analog efx units so bought this digi unit before I even knew if you could use digi with analog. Your answer helped alot. Thx to everyone who helped me with this simple but hard question for a newbie like me .