snare miking

[pinkieandtherev]

OK, I'm still trying to get the drum sounds right for my album. I am hampered by the fact that I have to get everything right in one take (playing AND mixing) as I can only record two tracks at a time (or one track in stereo).

I have 6 XLR channels available, and I have yet to get a good pair of OH mics, so my drum miking setup looks like this:

Kick - Audix F12
Snare - SM57
Left tom - Audix F10 - panned approx 9:00
Mid tom - Audix F10 - panned center
Floor tom - RS 33-3032 - panned approx 3:00
OH - Audix F10, on a stand behind my drum throne, at max height, angled down toward the kit. This is doing surprisingly well at picking up the cymbals. I have to ring the ride a little harder than normal and hit the crash a bit softer, but overall, not bad at all.

In fact, I'm getting decent sounds on everything...EXCEPT the snare.

I've tried putting the 57:

1) above the snare pointed down at the head - this captures the batter head attack well, but no snare-side sound
2) beneath the hi-hats pointed at the side of the snare - this captures the hats well, as well as the ride, but the snare sounds muddy
3) below the snare - captures snare-side sound, but no attack. This is particularly problematic on a few songs in which I use a lot of rimshots.

I have a decent quality 4-channel mixer I can patch in if I need more microphones. Cutting out the close mics on the toms isn't an option because if I try to catch both of them with one mic, I get way too much buzz from the shells. The only way to make them sound good is to get those mics close enough that all they're picking up is the head attack.

I know the consensus around here seems to be that 4 mics properly placed should do it. In the event that you don't have good overheads, more mics to close mic everything may be necessary. Any suggestions as to what I can do to make this snare sound halfway decent? I'm not adverse to the idea of over-and-undering it, but I have no clue what other mic to pair with the 57. I thought about pairing the F10 with it, and going to my original idea of using a pair of 588SD Unisphere B's as overheads.

Oh...nearly forgot, for awhile I added a Behri B-2 LDC as a room mic. Voila, it captured the full snare sound well. The problem is the room, as I mentioned before. I can't figure out how the heck those office panels are supposed to assemble, so I'm stuck with a humongous room right on the highway. The B-2 picks up WAY too much room noise, even in cardioid. I'm gonna see if our pastor still has the plexi drum shield we used to use. Not the greatest, but maybe I can at least keep jake brakes on the highway from bleeding into my drum mix. :P

[greyharmonix]

get a pair of condenser OH's and you'll find that drums will sounds so much better. close micing things i've found is mainly for accentuating parts of the drums in the mix, but the overall sound of a drum kit comes from the OH's. dynamic mics as overheads i've heard works but i can't imagine it being better than a pair of condensers.

as far as using an sm57 on the snare. you should be getting a pretty decent sound. i use a 57 and my snare sounds alright. maybe with a some compression on the way in while your tracking will get you better results.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by greyharmonix

get a pair of condenser OH's and you'll find that drums will sounds so much better.

.......the overall sound of a drum kit comes from the OH's.

....dynamic mics as overheads i've heard works but i can't imagine it being better than a pair of condensers.

.......as far as using an sm57 on the snare. you should be getting a pretty decent sound.

I agree with everything in this post.

[timvdwest]

+1 for 2 overheads and also a good sounding room. Plexi shield is going to make things sound worse most probably. Leave the room mic and just use 2 overheads.

[tmix]

Pinky,
Try putting the 57 running parallel to the head with the capsule just a above the rim but sticking over the rim about an inch.
It can give a brighter less "punching a paper Bag" sound and it relieves some of the hard transient spiking which allows it running hotter in the mix due to being slightly off axis.

Sounds counter intuitive , but works for me.

[pinkieandtherev]

Trying to come up with a good pair of condensers without paying an arm and a leg is kinda rough.

Our church has a pair of EV BK-1 VOCAL condensers. Anyone around here ever try these for drum OH's? I'd have to ask my pastor to bring them back...he took much of the sound equipment from here when he was planning to open another church in a town about an hour away. That church has yet to open (he's still getting the auditorium over there ready)...he might be willing to bring the BK-1s back for a while if I can get some use out of them.

Anyone? Bueller?

josh

[Schmidty]

The Ev's would probably work fine, if you can get them I would def. use them. Check into the Sterling condensers, they are pretty cheap (for condensers) and they sound real nice. I know the 57 is "industry standard" for your snare issues, but try putting a 58 on there and moving that around and seeing what you come up with.

[dgatwood]

My favorite mic on OH is a pair of Oktava MK-012 mics. You can usually find the things used for about $100 apiece.

You might call about this one:

http://www.musicgoround.com/detail.aspx?id=817145

and find out why the emphasis on "as-is".

Be careful, though. There are a few fake (Chinese) Oktava MK-012 mics out there. For example, this one is Chinese:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-OKTAVA-MC-0...3A1%7C294%3A50

Don't buy that one.