I need some new ears on an alt/rock song

[thebigcheese]

Ok, I just finished this mix today and overall, I'm pretty happy with it. Originally, the looping part repeated the whole song after it comes in, but I decided that was a bad idea and cut it out for the chorus. It was an odd transition at first, though, so I added in the ringing that you can here when he starts the chorus on the "now" of "now that we're home." I'm not totally sure whether or not the ringing is working for me, though, but it could just be that I've been playing with it so long. It's more noticeable on laptop speakers, too, so that's probably part of it. Everything else I'm pretty happy with, though.

http://www.techniciansband.com/hq/NowThatWereHome.mp3

And yes, there is a compressor on the master track, but I try not to plow my songs too much. This one was pretty consistent in volume anyway, so it doesn't matter as much, in my opinion.

[greyharmonix]

i think the guitars could be panned more extreme to either side. everything sounds too in the center of things. also i think the vocals could use some reverb. the vocals are a bit piercing, but i think reverb would help that. snare sounds a bit muffled too, but overall pretty cool stuff.

[thebigcheese]

I'm pretty sure the guitars are panned to the extreme. There's a separate one in the middle though that's doing something different, and when the louder guitar parts kick in, those are all singles in the center (or else doubling the clean guitar, and thus panned a little off center). I actually turned the reverb on the voice down a bit because it was up way too high before. There's quite a lot of it on there still (including some echo, actually), it just gets buried in the mix, I guess. I think the voice pierces mainly b/c of the accentuated high end. I tried to tame that, but I haven't been having much luck with that.

[greyharmonix]

wait so how many guitar tracks are there? theres a guitar rhythm that's playing through out the whole thing. then a clean guitar that comes in playing that spacey riff. then another fuzzy tone that comes later, right? i would put the rhythm and spacey riff on opposite sides and let the fuzzy one come in in the center. i think there's a bass in there that hardly comes through also or maybe it's a guitar playing as a bass?.

there's a lot of guitar and i think its difficult to get good separation between guitars when there's so much layering. maybe cutting out low frequencies in the guitars and allowing the bass or a bass to punch through better would allow everything to fit better.

[thebigcheese]

I've updated it, taking at least some of your suggestions from before. I'm pretty happy with it now.

To answer your questions: There are normally 3 guitars: one clean rhythm guitar in the middle, mostly for tone, then two guitars panned hard doing palm muted stuff and them distorted chords during the chorus. You know, for impact. I'm set with how loud the bass is, so that's not going to change, but it is a bass. The distorted guitars are playing basically the same notes the bass is, but an octave up, so it might be hard to distinguish, and I'm fine with that.

Later on, however, more guitars come into play. There is the looped clean/delayed guitar that is panned slightly left during the verses and what I guess I would call the bridge. The bridge also features another distorted guitar doubling what the clean rhythm guitar is doing, and at that point the clean guitar gets panned a bit right (bout 30% on the updated version) and the double is on the left, same distance. The loop part also comes back there, this time in the center. Then, during the heavier chorus at the end, the distorted guitar comes back, this time only slightly left. And then the little solo comes in for the fade out, panned a bit right.

What can I say, I like a full mix

[NL5]

Originally Posted by greyharmonix

there's a lot of guitar and i think its difficult to get good separation between guitars when there's so much layering. maybe cutting out low frequencies in the guitars and allowing the bass or a bass to punch through better would allow everything to fit better.

Great suggestion. By trying to make the mix "full", it just ended up a pile of mud.

[thebigcheese]

Originally Posted by NL5

Great suggestion. By trying to make the mix "full", it just ended up a pile of mud.

I should add that I always cut the lows on guitars, unless there isn't going to be bass in the song. So that's not the problem. I separated them a bit with panning, so hopefully that helps.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by thebigcheese

I should add that I always cut the lows on guitars, unless there isn't going to be bass in the song. So that's not the problem. I separated them a bit with panning, so hopefully that helps.

Well, it's just my two cents, but IMHO you have a muddy mess that lacks definition. The panning didn't fix the issue. By trying to make the tracks "full", the guitars sound small. I'd try less tracks with more definition, and give them some room to sound big.

[thebigcheese]

Really? I think it sounds fine... I'm not so much going for a "big" sound as much as an "ambient" sound. I don't know if that's the right word, but I'm definitely not going for a big rock sound. The Dredg song "Ode to the Sun" is kinda similar to what I was going for.

[thebigcheese]

Originally Posted by NL5

Well, it's just my two cents, but IMHO you have a muddy mess that lacks definition. The panning didn't fix the issue. By trying to make the tracks "full", the guitars sound small. I'd try less tracks with more definition, and give them some room to sound big.

Are you talking about specific parts, or the thing as a whole? I mean, like I said, I'm not necessarily looking for the distorted guitars to be "guitars" so much as just ambience. If you're just talking about the bridge section, I was thinking one thing I could do, since you guys all hate the middle so much, is leave the loop panned slightly left and pan both the clean guitar and its distorted counterpart the same slightly to the right and turn the distorted one down a bit. That way they would act more like one guitar. But maybe that wouldn't help. I dunno, I'm not really seeing what you're saying, I guess.

[thebigcheese]

I updated the bridge section:
EQed the distorted lead a bit
Raised the volume of the clean lead a bit (and I think I lowered the distorted)
Moved both leads to slight right
Lowered volume of the distorted rhythm
Moved the loop back to slight left, as it is the rest of the song

I think it's less messy now, but I'm not sure if I quite like it yet. I might just need to give it a break for a while and see. It's weird with the other guitars quieter now.