Studio in Garage

[Chili]

Moved into our newly built house and we finally decided to put the studio in half of the 3rd car garage. The room will be used for tracking vocals and acoustic guitars, then for mixdown with monitors. Everything else will be DI or ITB. Sound isolation won't be an issue, because that part of the garage is almost not attached to the house.

I have two concerns and am looking for feedback from you guys.

1) The space will essentially be a cube, 9'x12' with 10'ceiling. I have a 10 panels of johns manville equivalent to 703; 2" thick and 2'x4'. I know bass traps in all corners will be recommended. Has anyone ever cut 703 into triangular pieces and stack them into the corners? My thoughts are to cut teh 2'x4' panels down to 1' squares, then cut those diagonally in half to make 16 triangles. Stack those up and figure out how to mount them in the corners. The stack would be 32" tall. Would this be beneficial?

2) This is Texas and air conditioning is a way of life. However, I won't have access to the house HVAC system, so I'm thinking of punching a hole in the wall and mounting a window/thru-wall unit. Has anyone done or seen this done?? My concern here is keeping it quiet. Any suggestions??

Did I leave out anything out?? Is there something else I should be thinking about??

Thanks,

[CIRO]

Hi, Chili!

Let me know if I understood (with my crappy english...)

You want to cut a 2x4' piece to make 16 small triangles and put in the (wall/wall?) corners? Sorry, at least in my experience is a too small area for an effective absorption .Better with 8 triangular pieces (much more expensive)or the standard gap (altough 2" is not the way, you know...).

I make some ,"exactly" the "16 triangle pieces" as you said for some wall/floor corners , and they are doing a great job.For the standard "wall/wall corner", not sure as I said.

If you want serious treatment (just another "IMO...") for a room that size (like mine):
at least 14 2'x4'x4" panels.More, better

Damn english

Hugs

Ciro

[Chili]

Hi Ciro, Thanks for responding. Your english is fine, it's my portuguese that is completely lacking.

I think you understand what I am talking about. You confirmed what I was thinking; surface area will not be enough. The front would be about 15" (38cm) across. If I cut them into 8 triangles the front face would ~33" (83cm). I can buy more panels and they can be 4" thick. That woud be better, but would it be enough??

I am planning to do the wall to wall corners and wall to ceiling corners. Do I need to cover every inch of the corners or just in plane with the monitors??

I will also put panels in other areas of the room; first reflection points, maybe a cloud, etc...

Thanks much.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Has anyone ever cut 703 into triangular pieces and stack them into the corners?

Its common practice.
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=535

[CIRO]

Originally Posted by Chili

You confirmed what I was thinking; surface area will not be enough. The front would be about 15" (38cm) across. If I cut them into 8 triangles the front face would ~33" (83cm).

If you cut into 8 triangles they will be ~24" in the front face.

Originally Posted by Chili

I am planning to do the wall to wall corners and wall to ceiling corners. Do I need to cover every inch of the corners or just in plane with the monitors??

The more, the better.Then, "every inch",not only the in plane with monitors (at least vertical front wall/wall cornes).Full triangles-superchunck type-or standard panel.If "standard type" with gap, 4" minimun.6" is better (note that 4 6" panels cutted into 8 triangles each one will covered all L/R vertical front wall corners in a 8' height room- same money, better absorption)).

Originally Posted by Chili

I will also put panels in other areas of the room; first reflection points, maybe a cloud, etc...

That´s the way.In a room that size you´ll need a good amount of absorption in the rear wall too (and thick let´s say, 6" with gap) to tame the nasty nulls.

A cloud (just my personal experience here...) is a must.
The thicker panels I have in my room (2) are above my head and centered in the front wall/ceiling corner (another great point to treat).
I had "ultra nasty" peaks, that´s why I did then thick (8" and 12").

Ciro

[Chili]

Thanks guys, I didn't know that was called super chunks. I heard the term before. I now have a plan for treatment..... buy more panels.

Anyone have info on a wall unit a/c?? Silencing?? I'm thinking of a false wall in front with ducting to separate the exhaust from the intake and to slow down the air.

peace.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I'm thinking of a false wall in front with ducting to separate the exhaust from the intake and to slow down the air.

Think SPLIT PLENUM...Here is the idea. Read the whole thread but here is beginning of the relevant pages.See the Sketchup drawings of the plenum and how it has BAFFLES.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...ht=duct&page=3

fitZ

[Chili]

Well, we lost some posts here. No biggie. Thanks to Fitz, Ciro and DogBreath for the help and suggestions. Can't give rep again.

To recap, my plan is to use superchunks in all the corners of the walls and ceiling opposite side of the room from the monitors. I'll put 703 panels behind the monitors, at the first reflection point and as a cloud. I might put some halfway down the room also, but it's not a big room.

For the a/c unit, I will try a false wall in front of the unit with 703 on the side facing the unit. I will use ducting of some kind to separate the intake from the exhaust and to slow down the air movement (to make it quieter). I don't have firm ideas of how to do all this, but will make it up as I go along.

Any more comments are welcomed. Thanks!!

[CIRO]

Chili:
I read your post talking about (what "sounded" to me) as a possible lack of symetry in the front or side walls (sorry if I read or understood wrong).

Try to keep with symetry the best as you can (in the front portion of the room is a must IMO)

Different distances (not 3 or 4", much more) from the spekaers to L/R walls and the individual speakers response and image will suffer a lot (take a look in low end response,L first, after R, if it happens here).

Everything IMO/E.

And If I understood wrong, excuse me.


Ciro

[Chili]

Hey Ciro. No, I think you misunderstood on this one. No problem. I'm a bit obsessive about symmetry I'll keep the monitors centered in respect to the side walls. I'm not sure yet how far off from the front wall they will be. I will put bass traps on the back walls, then more 703 panels as said in previous posts.

I tried to draw it in SketchUp, but I can't get that thing to do what I want. And I don't have the patience to learn it, I want to get back to working on the room.

Thanks Brother.

[Dogbreath]

Originally Posted by Chili

Well, we lost some posts here. No biggie.

whew....I just had a chance to sign back in here and thought....huh? I knew I posted some stuff in here...??? WTF?

cool...I'm NOT losing it...................much.


Thanks ChiliDude!

[Chili]

Resurecting the thread. Made some progress today with pics.

Hope these load up okay.

pic #1 - starting point. The walls were initially drywalled, but they were lacking insulation which was an option I paid for when the house was built. When I started the studio project, I punched a few holes for electrical and found no insulation. So I called the builder and they are correcting the problem. They had a contractor remove the old drywall to get ready to insulate. And because of that, I get my new walls drywalled, mudded and taped, textured and painted for free. Gotta love it.

Pic #2 - I hired some help. It took them 5 minutes to build the header which would have taken me 2 hours to do. 1 hour to think about, 45 minutes to drink coffee and then 5 minutes to do it. The remaining 10 minutes would have been for admiring my work. You can see where we started knocking out the brick veneer wall. One brick at a time or else the whole wall could have crumbled.

Pic #3 - While one guy was working on the brick wall, the other framed my two additional walls. You can see how much of a cube the room will be.

Pic #4 - A little engineering on the fly, but I think it came out great. Some more trim pieces, caulk and paint and it will look great.

I'll have more pics later.

peace.

[Chili]

It's a-CUBE!!!

Made more progress.

I took a building permit out to do this work. I probably didn't have to.. even the inpsectors hanging out at the office were like, maaaaybe you don't have to. But I did anyway. During the framing inspection, the inspector looked at the way the a/c unit was mounted and said it looked like it was meant to be there. Whew, and I was worried it may not pass.

I have 10 panels of 703 I brought from my previous house and just ordered 6 more at $10 a piece. These are the 2x4 panels, 2 inch thick. As soon as I asked if he had any, he said I was going to use it for acoustics. I guess it's pretty popular.

Anyways, here are some more pics.
peace.

[suprstar]

Where can you order 703 panels for $10/sheet? I thought they were almost double that.. That'll be a neat little room when it's done, what's your est. completion date?

[Chili]

Originally Posted by suprstar

Where can you order 703 panels for $10/sheet? I thought they were almost double that.. That'll be a neat little room when it's done, what's your est. completion date?

I'm getting the 2" thick panels from SPI. Their website is listed in the 703 source thread stickied at the top of this section.

I'm hoping to be moved in next week. Not sure when the painter shows up. Insulaters come back on Wed, then I can get final sign-off from the inspector.

Thanks man.

[DrumArtist23]

I just called the SPI in Omaha NE. I just bought 24 sheets of OC 4'x2'x2" @ 6lb density, for $12 a sheet. Super excited.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I just called the SPI in Omaha NE. I just bought 24 sheets of OC 4'x2'x2" @ 6lb density

er...you better cancel that order. No wonder it was so cheap. SIX pound density is NOT for acoustical absorption!!! 3 lb density is what you need. Sorry.
fitZ

btw, I bought mine from SPI also. $600 for 4 sheets, 4" thick, and 2 sheets 3" thick, 4x10 foot panels. It was NOT cheap.

[Chili]

Quick update, no pics.

Room is basically done. Painters were last Thursday (they were free!!). Final inspection done on Monday. Inspector loved the room. Everything signed off.

Whew, I tell ya. Just at normal talking levels, that room reverberates something horrible. I'm talking a good 1 second tail that is easily heard. But....

I put in carpet today and started hanging 703. Just leaning the 703 panels against the wall near their intended position makes a HUGE difference. I've got a total of 16 panels for this small cube and I think it's going to be okay. The good thing is, I have access to a $25k Bruel and Kjaer analyzer so I'll know for sure where the peaks and valleys will be.

Turned electric on and tested the in-wall a/c. Yup, it makes a ton of noise. Well, the only thing to do is turn it off while I'm tracking. I do have plans for a baffle plate that will be the topic of another thread, but I will start that in a week or so. I know already it will still be too much noise for tracking. Not a problem, though. I can work around that. For mixing, I think the baffle plate will help a lot. Rudimentary experiments today give me hope.

peace.

[KineticSound]

Chili,
PLEASE tell me that wiring and round hole above the door are for either an "On Air" or "Recording" lamp.

[Dogbreath]

Right on ChiliDude!
Yer gonna keep us posted with the pics n stuff, right? The acoustic treatment and whatnot...??

I'm pretty jacked for ya. That's gonna be a cool room for ya.

Later mang.........Kel

[Chili]

Okaaaaay. got some more pics for ya.

Fisrt one is after drywall was hung, taped and mudded.



2nd is a/c in drywall. The drywall guys did a good job fitting around the a/c.



3rd, we're taking a bit of a time leap. Walls are textured and painted. Door is hung. Note: I hate doing doors and this one was no exception. I put Great Stuff expanding foam between the casing and the wall studs. It, of course, expanded and pushed the door jambs out of shape. Duh!!! I had to cut the door down to fit, then the door knob didn't install properly because I trimmed the door on the door knob side. What an idiot I can be sometimes!! When you trim a door, do it on the hinge side!!!! Okay. All inspections are done, inspector loved the room. Electrical turned on. I also built a workbench and moved my crap (and my Harley) over there.



4th, Yes Kinetic, I am telling you that light outlet is for a Recording lamp. It was a last minute decision to put one in. I didn't need it, I thought maybe it was a little over the top. But I had all the stuff, took me a minute to run the electrical, etc., so, what the hey. I picked up one of those CFL style lights and...
...it's a little nostalgic, a little funky. I LIKE IT!!!

[Chili]

On to room treatment.

I laid carpet the other day. A berber with a pad. Put some extra pad in the middle just so it's comfy when I'm jammin'. yeah, it's a little lumpy, but that's what happens in your old age anyways....

I had some 703 panels from before. They are actually Johns Manville equivalent, more on that later. When I moved from Virginia last year, I brought some of the panels with me. I used three for a cloud. I fixed them directly to the ceiling which I guess is not the correct way to do it, but it was easier. I used painted lattice wood (1/8" x 1") with a toggle bolt. The toggle bolt goes through a plastic trim piece with a cap, through a hole in the lattice, through the panel and into the ceiling. Tighten down, holds good. I put three up on the ceiling.



Before moving, I had cut some panels into triangles for corners in my last studio. Never got to use them, so I decided to put them here. Covered in fabric, I put them in the middle wall-ceiling corner on the back wall. I used carpet tack strips to hold them in place... more on that in a minute.



Here's a panel in the corner held in with tack strips also.



Here's a close up of the tack strip. It has nails to go into the floor and little tacks sticking up to hold the carpet. They work great for acoustic panels!!. A little Liquid Nails and nail them into place on the walls, press teh panel onto the tacks and presto!!! Very easy and very fast and fairly secure.



Installed on the wall.



For the corner pieces, I beveled the back edges to 45°. It's hard to see in this pic, but the edges are at a 45°. This way they fit on perpendicular walls. The fabric is held on with a spray-on adhesive. Do Not Breathe this stuff. You'll be coughing for days....



In Virginia, I could only find Johns Manville equivalent to OC703. They are the same size and density and do the same thing. Here in Austin, I found a local SPI and bought 703. I gotta say, I like the JM much better. It's a significant difference. The JM stuff is... I won't say coated, but treated so the fibers are bonded completely. The 703 is kind of crumbly and flaky. The JM stuff isn't. It looks like the 703 can break down easily, where as the JM stuff seems more durable, pliable and robust. I think I paid about $12 a panel for the JM and $10 for the 703. With the 703, I can understand people's concern for loose fibers floating around and I will completely seal teh panels in fabric to contain them. Don't have to worry about that with the JM panels.

Hard to see the difference in this pic. 703 on the left, JM on the right.



I have to finish hanging the panels and then I will build a baffle plate/ monitor mount plate. You'll understand once I get started and post pics. The baffle plate will help lower the noise from the a/c unit and also provide shelves to hold my studio monitors as well as mounting my computer monitors. That will be in a few weeks after a business trip. See ya then!!!

[suprstar]

lookin good man, love the red light!

[Dogbreath]

Most excellent ChiliDude!

Yer doin a fine job. If I wore hats, I'd tip it to you.
But since I drink beer, I'll tip one in your direction instead.

now get back to work. We want more pics.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by suprstar

lookin good man, love the red light!

Thanks man!! It's coming out way better than I expected.

Originally Posted by Dogbreath

But since I drink beer, I'll tip one in your direction instead.

Now you're talking.