inexpensive bass trap alternative

[Kerose]

i'm not spending 100 dollars for a bunch of rigid fiberglass when all i need is bass trapping for a small closet i'm recording hip hop vocals in. I don''t have room in there for a 2 foot by 4 foot panel, everyone says the same thing, OC 705 for bass traps, make monster panel, yeah, does anyone actually have anything original that is effective, i mean really, Owen Corning is not the only mother to have created a product that absorbs low frequency sound, nor are they the only source of a product that would do similar even if not intended for that purpose, who's got some other ideas????

[NL5]

LOL. OC 703/705 is the inexpensive alternative. Your other cheap alternative is 3-6 lb Rockwool.

Otherwise, look at Real Traps.

[NL5]

Actually, if it were me, I'd avoid recording in a closet all together. Make some 703 panels and put them in the biggest room you have. Surround the mic as much as possible.

[Kerose]

if that is the cheap alternative than what is the standard???


i didn't choose that closet cuz it is nice and cozy, i chose it cuz it is in my basement and by far the most quiet place in the house, i have loud ass ducts, and pretty heavy traffic nearby, my basement closet is surrounded in poured concrete, if it wasn't for the door on it, it would be practically soundproof, so choosing another room is not really an option, unless i want to deal with cop cars in my recordings

[NL5]

Originally Posted by Kerose

if that is the cheap alternative than what is the standard??

The "Standard" what?

For bass traps? For professional studios? Home studios?

There is no "standard". The best, cheapest solution is home made 703 or Rockwool panels for broadband absorption, or properly constructed bass traps with the same material.

As I said, the next step up is commercially produced bass traps/broadband absorbers such as Real Traps or GIK.

Next step up is to properly design a space. John Sayers forum is great for this.

After that, is a professionally designed and built space - such as Russ Berger Designs.

Hope that helps.

[Kerose]

okay, i was referring strictly to DIY, if i didn't want to spend on that, i surely aint spending on commercial products,

okay, so i found something that is cheap enough and seems to be pretty good
atsacoustics.com/item--Roxul-AFB-Mineral-Wool-2-inch-Case-of-6--1006.htm[/url]

so now, i will begin a new thread, cuz i am still stuck with my super small area and need more custom direction on where to put this stuff!!

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

mean really, Owen Corning is not the only mother to have created a product that absorbs low frequency sound, nor are they the only source of a product that would do similar even if not intended for that purpose,

Then by all means since you already know...please, tell us..were all on the edge of our seats.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

i'm not spending 100 dollars for a bunch of rigid fiberglass when all i need is bass trapping for a small closet i'm recording hip hop vocals in.

bass trapping? for speech frequencies? You got to be fucking kidding me...what you been sniffing?

[pk1]

i use these in my set up for vocals, with a pop shield. they stop all unwanted reflections and anything else bar the vocalist from reaching the mics.

ok you gotta spend a little cash but then they are worth thier weight in gold to me.

[Kerose]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

Then by all means since you already know...please, tell us..were all on the edge of our seats.

that's what I was asking, are you stupid, you honestly think that there is nothing else out there in the world that absorbs low frequencies than rigid fiberglass, you are quite naive

[buckkillr8]

Originally Posted by Kerose

that's what I was asking, are you stupid, you honestly think that there is nothing else out there in the world that absorbs low frequencies than rigid fiberglass, you are quite naive

Probably not the only thing out there in the world that will but it is the most widely used in DIY AND PRO applications amd the probably the best at doing what it does. The price is about as inexpensive as it comes too. That link to ATS is a great place to get it along other materials for DIY panels.

[Kerose]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

bass trapping? for speech frequencies? You got to be fucking kidding me...what you been sniffing?

anybody who knows shit, will tell you bass trapping in a 3x5 foot room is quite necessary regardless if it's speech frequencies, i'm a fucking man, you would be surprised how deep a man's voice gets, pull that rubberband off your nuts and you might realize that, you get too much low frequency and you are severely reducing the intelligibility of the piece, especially hip hop lyrics, that shit needs to be crisp, so raise the fuck off my dick bitch

[DrumArtist23]

Originally Posted by Kerose

anybody who knows shit, will tell you bass trapping in a 3x5 foot room is quite necessary regardless if it's speech frequencies, i'm a fucking man, you would be surprised how deep a man's voice gets, pull that rubberband off your nuts and you might realize that, you get too much low frequency and you are severely reducing the intelligibility of the piece, especially hip hop lyrics, that shit needs to be crisp, so raise the fuck off my dick bitch

Honestly Kerose, Rick is pretty much the go to guy (for me at least) when I want to know anything about treatment of a certain room. If you took about half the time you spent trying to be hard on the interwebs and put it into a search for closet treatment, you wouldn't have had to post in the first place.

So for your ease of mind and ours - If Rick believes your high for wanting to put bass traps in a small closet used for recording vocals, then I would put good money on him being right.

BTW - You probably wont get away with treating a closet for vocal recording for less than $200. Just my opinion.

[d.bop]

Originally Posted by Kerose

i'm not spending 100 dollars for a bunch of rigid fiberglass when all i need is bass trapping for a small closet i'm recording hip hop vocals in. I don''t have room in there for a 2 foot by 4 foot panel, everyone says the same thing, OC 705 for bass traps, make monster panel, yeah, does anyone actually have anything original that is effective, i mean really, Owen Corning is not the only mother to have created a product that absorbs low frequency sound, nor are they the only source of a product that would do similar even if not intended for that purpose, who's got some other ideas????

You don't have to spend $100. Order two sheets of Roxul from ATSAcoustics, cut them in half (or smaller,) double them up and frame them.

----
Cost Breakdown:
----
$17.18 + Shipping - 2 single sheets of Roxul AFB from ATSAcoustics
$4.00 - 4 pieces of 1"x4"x4' wood from Menards
$0.97 - Pack of 20 wood screws from Wal-Mart
$6.00 - Clearance 2 queen size sheets (200 thread count) from Wal-Mart
TOTAL: $28.15 + Shipping for Roxul.
----

I hope this isn't the way you treat people you actually know when you ask for help. After all, these are REAL people giving you THEIR time and energy to help YOU. Profanity and rudeness isn't needed and I for one am certainly offended by it (as are others, I'm sure.)

[Kerose]

Originally Posted by DrumArtist23

Honestly Kerose, Rick is pretty much the go to guy (for me at least) when I want to know anything about treatment of a certain room. If you took about half the time you spent trying to be hard on the interwebs and put it into a search for closet treatment, you wouldn't have had to post in the first place.

So for your ease of mind and ours - If Rick believes your high for wanting to put bass traps in a small closet used for recording vocals, then I would put good money on him being right.

BTW - You probably wont get away with treating a closet for vocal recording for less than $200. Just my opinion.

well you and your pal rick can come over to my house, you can lay down a vocal or whatever, and you tell me that there isn't an abundance of bass build up, you can even take a look at the spectrum analysis and see the large "hill", as it were, at around 125hz, I get results eq'ing that frequency out, but i don't have an eq i can insert between my devices, and don't want to go with eq on my software, also it won't sound as good as treating the room, also i spent lotttttsssss of time researching, but everybody was talking about the same treatment, did you read my post, i don't have the room for the standard type of treatment that has been out there on the "interwebs", that's why i was looking for specific help regarding my particular situation, so all i'm looking to do is eliminate the bass build up in my recordings

[doulos24]

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

go read look for a coefficient of 1.0 to 1.22 around 125hz these are your options no if ands or butts

[Kerose]

Originally Posted by d.bop

You don't have to spend $100. Order two sheets of Roxul from ATSAcoustics, cut them in half (or smaller,) double them up and frame them.

----
Cost Breakdown:
----
$17.18 + Shipping - 2 single sheets of Roxul AFB from ATSAcoustics
$4.00 - 4 pieces of 1"x4"x4' wood from Menards
$0.97 - Pack of 20 wood screws from Wal-Mart
$6.00 - Clearance 2 queen size sheets (200 thread count) from Wal-Mart
TOTAL: $28.15 + Shipping for Roxul.
----

I hope this isn't the way you treat people you actually know when you ask for help. After all, these are REAL people giving you THEIR time and energy to help YOU. Profanity and rudeness isn't needed and I for one am certainly offended by it (as are others, I'm sure.)

thanks for the reply, yeah, i actually saw that ATSAcoustics site, i was looking at the Roxul AFB, it's nice they sell in single pieces, taht was the main dealbreaker in buying rigid fiberglass or whatever cuz the bulk pricing, when i only needed a small amount, here's the deal though: i don't have 4 feet of space to put a large trap up, here i'll see if a jpg will post
cool it works, okay, the green are shelves, three rows of them, the area i am recording is where i tore some down, the red line is a psuedo wall i put in of plywood to even out my left wall area with the right side, see, i can't really put bass traps in the corners, cuz i don't really have any, so can i put traps on the ceiling, will that help???

as for my remarks, i was originally only looking for help and this guy just comes in here, talking trash and being a dick, which was not cool, don't start putting people down and making them feel stupid when they are only looking for help, especially when this guy has no clue on what i am working with , sorry if you were offended

[doulos24]

this is what you need for your space

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...ght=vocal+trap

[Kerose]

Originally Posted by doulos24

this is what you need for your space

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...ght=vocal+trap

okay but i don't see how this helps the bass problem, are you implying that a trap such as this behind the mic will reduce the low frequency buildup i'm experiencing, i can probably mount something this small on the wall behind the mic,


alright, this might be a stretch, but just for investigative purposes, i have 2 visco elastic pillows at home, they are each 18"x12", this is not that lightweight foam shit, no i'm talking an 80 dollar pillow it's heavy and dense as fuck, this stuff has got to be denser than any of these little corner traps i see auralex and whatnot selling, i would say just off the top of my head, each one weighs a good 5 pounds and is less than a cubic foot

[d.bop]

The reflection filter won't help the bass. It's purpose is to reduce reflections from bouncing off the wall and back into the mic, which your bass traps will also do as well as balancing out the low end.

I would say build the traps and place them in corners. Like I said, you can cut the halves or fourths or whatever shape you want and then double them up. Basically, the lower the frequency, the more dense the material needs to be. There are calculators out there to calculate room modes and evertything if you want to be super precise.

Once your traps are in place maybe try recording with your back to one so your voice can travel a little longer into the opposite corner before it bounces back.

Memory foam pillows might work, all you can do is try.

As for the comments earlier, my point was that it's probably not wise to register to a forum askng for help and then start cussing people out within your first few posts. But oh well, water under the bridge. Welcome to the forums!

[Dogbreath]

Originally Posted by Kerose

i'm not spending 100 dollars for a bunch of rigid fiberglass when all i need is bass trapping for a small closet i'm recording hip hop vocals in.

Originally Posted by Kerose

are you stupid, you honestly think that there is nothing else out there in the world that absorbs low frequencies than rigid fiberglass, you are quite naive

Originally Posted by Kerose

anybody who knows shit....
i'm a fucking man.....
pull that rubberband off your nuts.....
so raise the fuck off my dick bitch

Originally Posted by Kerose

well you and your pal rick can come over to my house....

Originally Posted by Kerose

as for my remarks, i was originally only looking for help and this guy just comes in here, talking trash and being a dick, which was not cool,

Welcome to HR dude.

[jhbrandt]

K,

Sorry to hear about your problem. Your pillows would probably help a little if they are put in a couple of the tri-corners, maybe on the floor there out of the way.

- I have also had problems with ppl being rude, so I understand.

Let me suggest that you try moving the mic around to find a spot that works ie; less room mode effect or boominess/boxiness. Your axial modes start at approximately 75Hz, 95Hz, and 150Hz. Foam will not help these freq's. (below 200Hz) Your best bet is to try to avoid the area(s) where the modes either pile up or combine to form a null. This can only be found by listening and moving the mic a few inches at a time to find the so called sweet spot.

I have mixed quite a few home recorded hip-hop tracks in which the vocal was recorded in a closet... and it is very hard to remove the closet resonance without effecting the vocal.

Is there stuff on the shelves?

Let me know if that helped.

[Kerose]

Originally Posted by doulos24

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

go read look for a coefficient of 1.0 to 1.22 around 125hz these are your options no if ands or butts

okay, so i guess screw the roxul they got at ats acoustics, but here is the ?, can i take one of these 4 foot by 2 foot by 2inch panels and cut it down into thirds and make a 2 foot x 1.3 foot x 6 inch panel, the site you linked says i need 6" thickness of 3lbs/cubic foot of CO 703 and that will give me over 1.0 coefficient for all frequencies listed and most importantly the 125 hz which is what i'm having biggest issue with, or do i have to find an actual 6inch piece, i would think 3, 2 inch pieces would work the same, this would be awesome, cuz i could make a panel that fits in where i need for only 15 bucks, plus shipping, of course i think i will need more, judging by my pic, where would you place them, can't make giant ass corner traps, just smaller panel traps

[Kerose]

Originally Posted by jhbrandt

K,

Sorry to hear about your problem. Your pillows would probably help a little if they are put in a couple of the tri-corners, maybe on the floor there out of the way.

- I have also had problems with ppl being rude, so I understand.

Let me suggest that you try moving the mic around to find a spot that works ie; less room mode effect or boominess/boxiness. Your axial modes start at approximately 75Hz, 95Hz, and 150Hz. Foam will not help these freq's. (below 200Hz) Your best bet is to try to avoid the area(s) where the modes either pile up or combine to form a null. This can only be found by listening and moving the mic a few inches at a time to find the so called sweet spot.

I have mixed quite a few home recorded hip-hop tracks in which the vocal was recorded in a closet... and it is very hard to remove the closet resonance without effecting the vocal.

Is there stuff on the shelves?

Let me know if that helped.

yeah actually there is stuff packed on all the shelves except for right behind me, my problem in the past in that room was reverb at the high levels, so i carpeted the area around where the mic is if you can tell where i mean, as well as the floor, i seem to still get a lot of sibilance and it is now also extra boomy, so it's like i cut out the mids and the rest is worse, is it possible to overdue trying to cut the highs, i got the ceiling everything behind me the door to my back left and the rest of the area where the shelves are which is only plywood, but i'm facing the carpeted corner so i didn't think it would bounce off the front and back and forward again, i can still through up acoustic panels on the rest of the walls, but i don't want to worsen the problem i have with the low frequencies, if that is even possible, if they are bouncing now, i can't see how more high end treatment would cause it too be worse, maybe just sound worse to my brain, since i'm removing more high end stuff, on the specturm analyzer the high end seems pretty leveled out and tame, but i still hear sibilance

[jhbrandt]

K,

Sibilance is not usually caused by the room. Remember that when recording at 24 bit you do not need to even come close to 0 on the meters... keep your peaks at around -12 to -14 on your DAW meters.

You probably already knew that though...

I am always warning ppl about too much absorption. Basically your problem, as I understand it, is poor mode distribution - which you CAN NOT fix. You must work with it.

Try moving the mic and singing with your back to the carpeted area. I think you are getting early reflections that create a comb filter in the microphone. This often happens in small booths where a viewing glass is close to the mic. That's why you often see angled glass on the viewing windows of voice-over studios.

I know you don't have any glass there.. but your wall can do the same thing. What mic are you using?? Cardioid pattern, right?

If it's a Cardioid then the wall behind the mic will not affect it that much. Try putting the mic in the 'yellow' area and you sing from where you used to have the mic.

Please give a try to putting the mic in different spots and doing a quick recording. I am confident that you will find a better sounding spot... all without spending a dime.

But you might want to put a panel up on the door and one on the ceiling. But try the mic move first to find a spot that is not boomy. Then you can deal with the reverb.

Let me know how it goes.