AD/DA Converter

[fdrennan]

What is it? And how would it help my rig? I have Pro Tools LE with the Digi 003 rack with 8 pre's! Thanks for your help!
Also, what would be a good one with at 2000 price limit?
I searched AD/DA Converters and didnt find much information.
Hope this isnt too much of a dumb question! : )

[bennychico11]

A/D=Analog to Digital
D/A=Digital to Analog


so an A/D converter would be an Analog to Digital converter. Basically your 003 is an A/D converter since it's taking your mic signal and converts it into digital for your computer.
It's ALSO a D/A converter because it converts the signal in Pro Tools back to analog so your speakers can play it.


Standalone A/D converters would plug into your digital connections on the 003. Some companies specialize in converter technology and so they make better converters than the all-in-one units that some other audio companies make. That's not saying the converters are terrible on the 003...it's just some purists prefer to use higher quality.
Also, the connection of another A/D converter would allow you to utilize more inputs on your 003. For that unit you could have up to 18 mics plugged in if you had the right equipment.

Decide if you actually NEED a converter. If you're asking what a converter is...you probably wouldn't hear the aural differences. If you only record a couple of instruments at a time...then the 8 pres are probably enough for you.

[Erockrazor]

Originally Posted by fdrennan

What is it? And how would it help my rig? I have Pro Tools LE with the Digi 003 rack with 8 pre's! Thanks for your help!
Also, what would be a good one with at 2000 price limit?
I searched AD/DA Converters and didnt find much information.
Hope this isnt too much of a dumb question! : )

Why are you setting a price point for something you dont know? Figure out what you need before you buy it. Bennychico gave a great explanation as to what the converter does. The one's on your 003 won't hold you back from making good recordings. There is likely something weaker in your signal chain that may need some upgrading before your converters.

[Erockrazor]

Originally Posted by bennychico11

If you only record a couple of instruments at a time...then the 4 pres (the 003 only has four, not eight) are probably enough for you.

Don't want to be a smart a#! but digidesign actually just came out with an 8 preamp version of the 003 rack called the 003+ rack. http://digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid=100&navid=464

Eric

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by Erockrazor

Don't want to be a smart a#! but digidesign actually just came out with an 8 preamp version of the 003 rack called the 003+ rack. http://digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid=100&navid=464

Eric

smart ass



thanks for the correction...I actually was not aware they had that. I haven't visited their site in awhile

[fdrennan]

Thanks! Yea, this is helpful! I appreciate your time!

[Jorock]

I've been using a Digi002 for about a year and a half and that's now becoming a part of my dilemma too. As I have heard first hand the improvements that a solid AD/DA unit can make, and for me I dont think the DIGI 002 is cutting it anymore. However I cant simply ditch it in favour of something else if I still want to use pro tools. Anyone know how the converters in a digi 192i/o or 96i/o compare to a Rosetta 800?

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by Jorock

I've been using a Digi002 for about a year and a half and that's now becoming a part of my dilemma too. As I have heard first hand the improvements that a solid AD/DA unit can make, and for me I dont think the DIGI 002 is cutting it anymore. However I cant simply ditch it in favour of something else if I still want to use pro tools. Anyone know how the converters in a digi 192i/o or 96i/o compare to a Rosetta 800?

if you're just interested in upgrading the converters and don't need a new I/O option...take a look at the mods from Black Lion:

http://www.blacklionaudio.com/digi002_mod.html

[Gemenhy]

Originally Posted by Jorock

I've been using a Digi002 for about a year and a half and that's now becoming a part of my dilemma too. As I have heard first hand the improvements that a solid AD/DA unit can make, and for me I dont think the DIGI 002 is cutting it anymore. However I cant simply ditch it in favour of something else if I still want to use pro tools. Anyone know how the converters in a digi 192i/o or 96i/o compare to a Rosetta 800?

Jorock.
If you still want to use PT, then why don't you switch to PT M-Powered. You have a much wider choice of AD/DA you can use wit MP.

Must say that LE has a little more advantage over MP with extra tools etc. but MP can do the job as well.

[thajeremy]

Originally Posted by Gemenhy

You have a much wider choice of AD/DA you can use wit MP.

.

please explain....

doesnt the Digi002 have spdif i/o and ADAT i/o???

and the Rosetta 800 has ADAT outs....if that is the case, just use the ADAT ous from the Rosetta to the ADAT ins on the Digi...

I use PT mpowered...I have a Delta 1010. I record drums with the Delta because I need all the channels. I record everything else with a Lucid stereo converter into the Delta's s/pdif...

[Gemenhy]

Originally Posted by thajeremy

please explain....

doesnt the Digi002 have spdif i/o and ADAT i/o???

and the Rosetta 800 has ADAT outs....if that is the case, just use the ADAT ous from the Rosetta to the ADAT ins on the Digi...

I use PT mpowered...I have a Delta 1010. I record drums with the Delta because I need all the channels. I record everything else with a Lucid stereo converter into the Delta's s/pdif...

With LE you still using the I/O's of the Digi hardware and they only have 1 ADAT out, wich means you have only 8 ADAT I/O. So if you wanna use a top High-End AD/DA converter on ADAT you can only use 8 I/O's of the high-end converter. And the other 8 will go thru the Digi interface.

That's not the case with MP, you can use more ADAT I/O's.

[pezking]

Originally Posted by Gemenhy

With LE you still using the I/O's of the Digi hardware and they only have 1 ADAT out, wich means you have only 8 ADAT I/O. So if you wanna use a top High-End AD/DA converter on ADAT you can only use 8 I/O's of the high-end converter. And the other 8 will go thru the Digi interface.

That's not the case with MP, you can use more ADAT I/O's.

Such as the lightbridge...

However you can't use Complete Production Toolkit with MP so that'd put me right off. Plus to be honest, I think the converters in the 003 are perfectly adequate. There are for more things to be worrying about than the converters at this level. Acoustics is the obvious thing that comes to mind, monitoring and microphones are close behind.

[Gemenhy]

Originally Posted by pezking

However you can't use Complete Production Toolkit with MP so that'd put me right off.

Yeah.. that's what I ment, LE has a little more options in expanding your DAW. Also the fact that you can have 128 tracks with LE over 64 for MP.
That's all marketing they want to sell more HD's and LE's over MP, the cheapest one.

[thajeremy]

Originally Posted by Gemenhy

That's not the case with MP, you can use more ADAT I/O's.

what M-audio interface has more than 1 ADAT i/o? I use m-powered and to my knowledge M-powered only supports the use of 1 interface.

[pezking]

Originally Posted by Gemenhy

Yeah.. that's what I ment, LE has a little more options in expanding your DAW. Also the fact that you can have 128 tracks with LE over 64 for MP.
That's all marketing they want to sell more HD's and LE's over MP, the cheapest one.

I don't agree with that. I think that M-Powered quite often works out more expensive than LE. It's not that they want to sell more HD than anything else (though of course they do, and I'm not doubting that), it's that they offer products to cater for different customers at different price points, with different needs.

Originally Posted by thajeremy

what M-audio interface has more than 1 ADAT i/o? I use m-powered and to my knowledge M-powered only supports the use of 1 interface.

As I said already - the Profire Lightbridge. Of course you can only use 18 of those i/o at a time, but it does allow you to run any converters you please with Pro Tools. I believe the Profire 2626 also has two ADAT connectors, though it's a bit more costly.

[Gemenhy]

Originally Posted by pezking

I don't agree with that. I think that M-Powered quite often works out more expensive than LE. It's not that they want to sell more HD than anything else (though of course they do, and I'm not doubting that), it's that they offer products to cater for different customers at different price points, with different needs.

As I said already - the Profire Lightbridge. Of course you can only use 18 of those i/o at a time, but it does allow you to run any converters you please with Pro Tools. I believe the Profire 2626 also has two ADAT connectors, though it's a bit more costly.

I understand your statement but.... different needs?? What about this need, and I'm sure I'm not alone on this.
I don't want to spent that much money to buy HD. I still want to use a High-End converter of my own choice and I need 128 tracks and record my tracks on a 64 H/W buffer. I also want to have ADC, so no plugin will cause any latency.

Don't think they will produce this version of PT for 150 bucks or less.

If you can do with MP what you can do with LE or even HD. I'll bet ya they're gonna sell more MP versions.
I'm here with PT 8 (MP) with a Lightbridge and a SSL AD/DA converter.
I got 24 I/O's with Solid State Logic quality. I'm sure many big guys (studio's) will setup such a chain if MP was a full functional Protools. And I can assure you this one is working excellent here, love Protools MP, so I'm not complaining at all.

I don't think that M-Powered quite often works out more expensive than LE. Just look at the option in LE, you can do everything in LE what MP can do. But not the other way around.

[pezking]

Originally Posted by Gemenhy

I understand your statement but.... different needs?? What about this need, and I'm sure I'm not alone on this.
I don't want to spent that much money to buy HD. I still want to use a High-End converter of my own choice and I need 128 tracks and record my tracks on a 64 H/W buffer. I also want to have ADC, so no plugin will cause any latency.

Don't think they will produce this version of PT for 150 bucks or less.

If you can do with MP what you can do with LE or even HD. I'll bet ya they're gonna sell more MP versions.
I'm here with PT 8 (MP) with a Lightbridge and a SSL AD/DA converter.
I got 24 I/O's with Solid State Logic quality. I'm sure many big guys (studio's) will setup such a chain if MP was a full functional Protools. And I can assure you this one is working excellent here, love Protools MP, so I'm not complaining at all.

I don't think that M-Powered quite often works out more expensive than LE. Just look at the option in LE, you can do everything in LE what MP can do. But not the other way around.

How have you got 24 i/o with M-Powered?

Let's not start bitching about HD vs MP vs LE etc. and I'm so sick and tired of the ADC bs. Get over it. It's not gonna happen any time soon. If you want it, get HD. Does anyone produce software that does ADC for 150? If they do, is it as good as Pro Tools? I rest my case.

IMO if you need HD (and/or the features that come with it) it will pay for itself. If you don't need it, then clearly it's a very large amount of money to spend.

I'm not stating an opinion when it comes to M-Powered often being more expensive - it is. For the comparable hardware (like Mbox 2 vs Fast Track Pro), the LE stuff works out cheaper once you've added the cost of M-Powered software. You also end up with a more expandable solution which is capable of surround sound.

[Gemenhy]

I'm not having 24 I/O's with M-Powered. I got 24 I/O's with Solid State Logic quality. And with MP I can use the SSL (18 I/O). I'm not only using Protools, I also use Cubase, Live and/or Reaper.

But this is getting a little bit off topic.

All I wanna say is that you have a wider choice with MP for your I/O set-up and you still can run other program’s as well with the same set-up.
But don't get me wrong the converters of the 003 are good.
Just like you said there are more thing to look at before worrying about the converters of the Digi hardware.

[pezking]

Originally Posted by Gemenhy

I'm not having 24 I/O's with M-Powered. I got 24 I/O's with Solid State Logic quality. And with MP I can use the SSL (18 I/O). I'm not only using Protools, I also use Cubase, Live and/or Reaper.

But this is getting a little bit off topic.

All I wanna say is that you have a wider choice with MP for your I/O set-up and you still can run other program’s as well with the same set-up.
But don't get me wrong the converters of the 003 are good.
Just like you said there are more thing to look at before worrying about the converters of the Digi hardware.

I get ya now. You're correct about having a wider choice for I/O with MP, this is true and the integration with third party aps is perhaps better than the Digi stuff. And yes slightly off topic, but I think the original question has mainly been answered

[Gemenhy]

Originally Posted by pezking

I get ya now. You're correct about having a wider choice for I/O with MP, this is true and the integration with third party aps is perhaps better than the Digi stuff. And yes slightly off topic, but I think the original question has mainly been answered

+1 .

Cheers

[Jorock]

Originally Posted by bennychico11

if you're just interested in upgrading the converters and don't need a new I/O option...take a look at the mods from Black Lion:

http://www.blacklionaudio.com/digi002_mod.html

Yeah I did look at what Black Lion has to offer and I am interested. Im just wondering if I spend that money, if down the road I'll be finding an interest in upgrading from that to the rosetta. Im just wanting to skip steps rather than constantly upgrading I'd rather buy what I might be happier with for the long-term (if thats even possible with a gearhead like me ;-)

I used to run M-Powered when I had my m-audio 410, but I bought the digi002 for 8-ins so I could track drums.

I dont think I really need more than 8 ins, I know some drum kits out there are larger, but regardless, for a home based studio I want quality and quantitiy to be balanced within a reasonable budget.

Currently I run a Mackie VLZ3 Pro mixer (for 4 extra pres) into the digi002, but I have considered a BLA mod, and 2 dual channel preamps for 8 high quality ins. Or the other option is to buy a mackie type mixer that has 8 pres, and run those 8 into a rosetta, then the rosetta into some type of digi interface? Might cost more money but would it sound better or just as good or worse?

[Nandoram]

Originally Posted by fdrennan

What is it? And how would it help my rig? I have Pro Tools LE with the Digi 003 rack with 8 pre's! Thanks for your help!
Also, what would be a good one with at 2000 price limit?
I searched AD/DA Converters and didnt find much information.
Hope this isnt too much of a dumb question! : )

I was recently schooled on just this thing, and so I'll pass on what little I know to you!

I have a 003 Rack I bought when it first came out... about a little over a year ago. Previously, I had had the 001. The 001 was great, but I did notice that the converters on the 003 were BETTER. My vocal recordings sounded clearer to my ears. Also, the guitars and bass seemed to benefit from increased clarity. Not as much color as on the 001. I'm no expert... but I really do believe the 003 converters are better than what was on the 001, or the 002 for that matter. According to my brother, who owns a 002 rack, the 002 converters are "darker" in his opinion.

Anyway, my bro turned me onto the need for getting a better converter than what comes in the 003. He suggested that I get an Alesis M20 ADAT machine, and use it's vastly superior converters. I use this to record at 24bits initially in Pro Tools, and it's sounding GREAT. The Alesis M20s go for pretty good prices nowadays... even on Ebay. Only about $200-$400. And that's a great price for a $7000 converter!!!!!!!!

[Nandoram]

Another thing... using better converters is better all around for your mic preamps. I'm currently using a Summit Audio 2BA-221 preamp for my vocals, bass, and (of course) guitars... and now with the better converters, I'm hearing what it REALLY sounds like without the 003's converters coloring the sound. I can only imagine how great an AVALON or a UA preamp would sound like (I can't afford them at this point). For now, I'm very happy with the Summit unit, because I primarily do hard rock, and the Summit is geared for that.

The only weak link I have now is using my various guitar modelers (Vamp Pro Rack, and Vox Tonelab LE). The problem is suffering with their inferior converters coloring the sound. I also have the $125 Line6 PocketPOD, and you can imagine how cheap that converter is for the price. The only way around that is to use a software modeler, which would eliminate the need for the physical converter.

For bass, I've been VERY happy with how my SansAmp Bass Driver DI has been tracking through this rig. I've learned how to dial in a setting that sounds great to my ears, and keeps the unit from becoming TOO NOISY (which a lot of SansAmp stuff is, and I'm surprised not many people talk about that (from what I've seen online)). I mean, I recently returned a GT2 because it was WAY TOO NOISY for me (even with a noise reduction pedal).

[Jorock]

Originally Posted by Nandoram

Anyway, my bro turned me onto the need for getting a better converter than what comes in the 003. He suggested that I get an Alesis M20 ADAT machine, and use it's vastly superior converters. I use this to record at 24bits initially in Pro Tools, and it's sounding GREAT. The Alesis M20s go for pretty good prices nowadays... even on Ebay. Only about $200-$400. And that's a great price for a $7000 converter!!!!!!!!

Hey Nandoram, so by using the ADAT are you able to run an XLR right into the back of it then out through the ADAT jack to the 003, or am I wrong, cause I think there aren't any preamps in the ADAT. If not then what is your signal path, cause if you run an XLR into the 003 and then use an external converter,is it not just running back through the digi converters, thus losing the quality?

I have considered a Rosetta 800 as an external converter, but if it renders the digi002's preamps useless, then the digi becomes a giant firewire dongle as others have suggested.

[Nandoram]

Originally Posted by Jorock

Hey Nandoram, so by using the ADAT are you able to run an XLR right into the back of it then out through the ADAT jack to the 003, or am I wrong, cause I think there aren't any preamps in the ADAT. If not then what is your signal path, cause if you run an XLR into the 003 and then use an external converter,is it not just running back through the digi converters, thus losing the quality?

I have considered a Rosetta 800 as an external converter, but if it renders the digi002's preamps useless, then the digi becomes a giant firewire dongle as others have suggested.

Yeah, you got it right, Jorock... you need another preamp... not the Digi one.

It is a big firewire dongle, but you need this dongle to use that EVERY STUDIO HAS IT PT software!

My bro set it up for me, and I'm not 100% on how he did it, but here's what I know:

I'm using the 003, a Summit Audio preamp, and the ADAT. I had to buy a DYNEX 3 FT DIGITAL OPTICAL CABLE ($19.99 at Best Buy). I connected this to the back of the 003, and of course, to the back of the ADAT. I think my bro called this "lightpipe", but I could be wrong. Then he connected the Summit Preamp to the ADAT via an XLR cable.

When I record my guitars, the signal path is: modeler to the preamp, the preamp to the ADAT, with the signal going to the 003 via the Optical cable. We had to set up the ADAT to the following: CLOCK SOURCE: OPTICAL; SAMPLE: 44.1K; SMPTE: 24; TC SOURCE: EXTERNAL; Then I had to go into the preferences of the 003 and make PT recognize the ADAT input.

When I record vocals, I just plug my condenser into the preamp (which has phantom power). The vocal signal tehn of course goes via XLR to the ADAT, which then goes into the 003 via the Optical cable.

Works great!!!