Recording Acoustic Guitar and Vocals

[Smileyshreads]

Can anyone please help me out on this. what are good ways to mix acoustic guitar.. what are good plugings to use for acoustic guitar and what are good ways to record and mix vocals.. and what are good plugins to use for vocals. I have a 180$ phantom powered AKG perception 220 condenser mic, 3 shure Pg58's, and 3 Audix om-2 mics. i have Cubase sx3,Waves murcury bundle, Rso Vocal Magic, and loads of other plugins. how should i go about recording the acoustic and vocals. also what are some good settings for a compressor for acoustic and also vocals, same with reverb (some of my reverbs are VERY in depth and there are lots of knobs in the plugin)

[Chili]

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

Can anyone please help me out on this. what are good ways to mix acoustic guitar.. what are good plugings to use for acoustic guitar and what are good ways to record and mix vocals.. and what are good plugins to use for vocals. I have a 180$ phantom powered AKG perception 220 condenser mic, 3 shure Pg58's, and 3 Audix om-2 mics. i have Cubase sx3,Waves murcury bundle, Rso Vocal Magic, and loads of other plugins. how should i go about recording the acoustic and vocals. also what are some good settings for a compressor for acoustic and also vocals, same with reverb (some of my reverbs are VERY in depth and there are lots of knobs in the plugin)

There was one acoustic guitar recording that really stood out to me and it's posted here at HR. Check this thread out... halfway down, the OP talks about how he recorded his acoustic. It's pretty simple, actually.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=267002

The biggest factors in getting a great acoustic guitar track is the guitar itself and the room it is recorded in. This Laviree just sings!!

peace.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

what are good plugings to use for acoustic guitar...and what are good plugins to use for vocals.

As few as possible. Get yourself into a good-sounding room, experiment with your miking to get the best sound you can from your git and vocals. Replace and retune *all* your strings before you record. Try the OM2s as a stereo pair aligned vertically, or if you can't get good volume balance that way, try the AKG close miked on fret 12-14 of your guitar or on the saddle and the OM2 for vocal (or vice versa, just to see).

But if you want a natural acoustic sound, try to keep plug use to a minimum. Perhaps some compression in mixing to tame the dynamics just a little bit, and any other plugs only to attack any problems you just can't get rid of in tracking.

G.

[valem]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

But if you want a natural acoustic sound, try to keep plug use to a minimum. Perhaps some compression in mixing to tame the dynamics just a little bit, and any other plugs only to attack any problems you just can't get rid of in tracking.

G.

+1

Also, don't be scared to experiment. Besides reading all the info you can get on these forums nothing beats experience. And how you gain experience is by trying different things until you get something you like.

[DrewPeterson7]

Not that I'm really qualified to add anything after Southside, lol, but if there's anything I've learned about recording acosutic guitar, it's this - if you're not 99.5% happy with the sound of the acoustic guitar when you listen back to it dry, then re-track the part rather than trying to fix it afterwards. Unless you're going for a "processed" sound, then all you really want to consider is some subtle compression, some subtle EQ, and maybe the lightest hint of 'verb - no more. For a "natural" acoustic sound, there's nothing that can top a well-recorded good-sounding acoustic left on its own.

[Smileyshreads]

ok thanks guys, now what about vocals?

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

As few as possible. Get yourself into a good-sounding room, experiment with your miking to get the best sound you can from your git

Originally Posted by DrewPeterson7

if you're not 99.5% happy with the sound of the acoustic guitar when you listen back to it dry, then re-track the part rather than trying to fix it afterwards.

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

ok thanks guys, now what about vocals?

Same thing.

[Smileyshreads]

Same thing as the acoustic?... what about plug ins? im sure vocal track shouldnt be 100% dry. i mean i hear some people sing and they sound "ok" then when they are recorded and the song is finished the vocals sound so much better. i also am curious how i should record and pan the vocals, aside from the placement. like should i record each mic in mono? so say one take with 3 mono mics? should i record more then once? if its just an acoustic song with vocals and thats it. and what about panning? im pretty new to the acoustic/vocals recording. never done any of this before.

here are some of my recordings.. i dont know if they are any good. have a liten to the first song all the way. (i do not own a bass guitar anymore soo the track is lacking that. beginning of the song as a "am radio effect" haha some people have asked why the clean guitar sounds funky but thats why

put this after myspace . com

/smiley39sstudio

[RAMI]

I didn't say "no plug-ins". I'm suggesting you take the same advice that I quoted above. Get it to sound as good as you can during tracking, as opposed to depending on plug-ins and effects to make it sound good. After that, you might want to add some compression and/or reverb and/or delay, etc...But none of that is written in stone as far as being absolutely neccassary.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the 3 mono mics. Get a good sounding take with a good mic and you're more than half way to a good recording.

[Smileyshreads]

what i mean by the mono mics, when i record should i make the track mono or stereo? so when i mic the acoustic should the tracks for both those mics be in mono or stereo? and what about panning? should i duplicate the recording? then pan like 50/50? or something and vocals middle? Thanks for all the help you guys have given.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

what i mean by the mono mics, when i record should i make the track mono or stereo? so when i mic the acoustic should the tracks for both those mics be in mono or stereo? and what about panning? should i duplicate the recording? then pan like 50/50? or something and vocals middle? Thanks for all the help you guys have given.

One mic=one mono track. 2 mics=1 stereo track.

Your vocal track should be a mono track because it's one voice going into one mic. Your guitar track(s) can be stereo if you use 2 mics to record your guitar. Others here are more qualified than I am to give you advice on where to place those mics for acoustic.

Don't duplicate anything, it doesn't do anything other than make your track louder, nothing else. The only way to effectively duplicate is to actually play and record twice. In other words, record your guitar and put that into TRACK 1. Then play and record that same part again and put that in TRACK 2 (the TRACK numbers are just examples, obviously).

[Smileyshreads]

ok yah, i usually quadtrack my guitars when i record my band. i didnt know if that sort of approach is needed with this style. so shal i just leave the acoustic center?

[gecko zzed]

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

ok yah, i usually quadtrack my guitars when i record my band. i didnt know if that sort of approach is needed with this style. so shal i just leave the acoustic center?

Quad-tracking guitars doesn't sound like the right approach for an acoustic guitar and vocals.

As for centering the acoustic . . . . why not just try it and see for yourself?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

ok yah, i usually quadtrack my guitars when i record my band. i didnt know if that sort of approach is needed with this style. so shal i just leave the acoustic center?

Acoustic guitar rarely sounds all that good multitracked; it can get muddy real quick, especially if you're using the same guitar. If you wanted to double track, that can be pretty good, but it's best (IMHO) if you use two different guitars (even better with two different guitarists ), or at least two different mics or miking styles.

And with two acoustics, the ideal is slightly different than with electric doubling; I find it usually sounds best when the lines stray from each other somewhat. Not in terms of sloppiness, but in terms of purposeful variations here and there.

But more than two acoustics, while that can sometimes work well - imagine a power anthem done Kingston Trio style with 3 or 4 backing guitars - can be tough to mix well without getting a large buildup of mush, and is IMHO usually not necessary. I did a session in an apartment once with four gits, a blues harp, and a Tascam portastudio (this was back in the early 90s) that came out sounding fairly good, but that was with pretty heavy automation mixing on the computer after the fact that resulted in a mix that used two of the guitars less than 30% of the time, often only for adding an occasional fill or arpeggio here or there.

And remember there are plenty of big-name artists from all genres who have released popular and successful acoustic recordings of just themselves and their one guitar. Worked fine for Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash and Neil Young .

If you're recording the git in mono, you can put it center if you want, but just some simple stereo like the git 35% left and the vocal 35% right works fine. This is especially good if you set up the vertical stereo pair I mentioned earlier, and results in a very "natural" sound.

If you record the git in stereo (i.e. two mics as a stereo pair on the one guitar), or lay down two git tracks, you can give those a stereo spread and throw the vocals down the middle, or give the gits a stereo spread from full left to center with the vocals 50%-100% right (to taste).

G.

[Smileyshreads]

Alright, what do u think the best mic should be out of the mics i have, shure pg58 or audix om2 , im using the condensor mic already, that thing is sensative! haha, i can rub by fingers together across the room and hear is plain as day in the headphones. what ive been doing is recording one take with the guitar directly connect and the condensor mic. i have the direct recording turned down all the way then i raise it up just enough to hear it. i kinda like the sound cause not only am i getting the sound from mics i get the full sound of the di. maybe thats not good? but hey im still learning :P . both of those tracks are in mono, then i duplicate the mic track and duplicate the di track and pan the 2 mic tracks 60/60 then the di tracks 45/45 vocals in the middle

[RAMI]

Like I said, you're accomplishing absolutely nothing by "duplicating":

Originally Posted by RAMI

Don't duplicate anything, it doesn't do anything other than make your track louder, nothing else. The only way to effectively duplicate is to actually play and record twice.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

Alright, what do u think the best mic should be out of the mics i have, shure pg58 or audix om2

This is one of those slap your head, I could have had a V8 answers:

The best mic is the one that gives you the sound you like the best. It all depends upon what you like and what you are looking for, as well as which mic matches your particular guitar the best. Try 'em both and see what works for your needs and situation.

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

then i duplicate the mic track and duplicate the di track and pan the 2 mic tracks 60/60 then the di tracks 45/45 vocals in the middle

There's nothing wrong with layering the DI and the mic tracks; if you like that sound mix, then that's all you need to know .

But when it comes to duping and panning the the duped tracks, Rami has it absolutely right; that does nothing for you that a simple volume change on a mono track won't do.

Think of it this way, all a mono track panned down the middle of a stereo mix actually winds up being when you play it back is equal volume coming out of both the left and right speaker.

It's the exact same thing as taking two mono tracks and panning them equally left and right. The only difference is that may be a couple of dB louder that way. But you can accomplish that simply by raising the volume a couple of dB on the center-panned mono.

G.

[Rexinator]

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

Can anyone please help me out on this. what are good ways to mix acoustic guitar.. what are good plugings to use for acoustic guitar and what are good ways to record and mix vocals.. and what are good plugins to use for vocals. I have a 180$ phantom powered AKG perception 220 condenser mic, 3 shure Pg58's, and 3 Audix om-2 mics. i have Cubase sx3,Waves murcury bundle, Rso Vocal Magic, and loads of other plugins. how should i go about recording the acoustic and vocals. also what are some good settings for a compressor for acoustic and also vocals, same with reverb (some of my reverbs are VERY in depth and there are lots of knobs in the plugin)

Smiley: I'm jumping in really late on this thread, but I can share what I do for acoustic guitar tracking. I typically record the entire song (one good take, after punching-in as needed or comping takes on Logic) as two tracks at once. I use a Rodes stereo mic (stereo track) positioned at around Fret 12 up on the neck (stay away from the soundhole....duh) and a direct line mono channel (I have an Ovation with a pretty good pickup system). In the final mix, the microphone stereo track is dominant, but the direct line can sometimes fatten or sweeten, in measured amounts. If the acoustic guitar is a minor element of the song, I often wind up dumping the direct line track. But if the acoustic guitar is the predominant instrument, I will track it twice (i.e., I play the song over again exactly as I described above, using new stereo and mon tracks). When I do that, I try to be as precise as possible in matching the original performance, but some subtle differences in the attack and timing can actually be an enhancement (in my opinion). With the 4 tracks thus created (2 stereo tracks from the Rodes and 2 mono direct line, derived from two performances), I then pan the tracks for each performance hard left and right. That technique produces a magical phatness that works well when there are few other instruments (except vocals) competing for the space.

[Smileyshreads]

alright thanks guys. what are good settings to set compression for acoustic guitar and if its a good idea what are good reverb settings.. same with vocals, what are good compression settings for vocals and good reverb settings.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Smileyshreads

alright thanks guys. what are good settings to set compression for acoustic guitar and if its a good idea what are good reverb settings.. same with vocals, what are good compression settings for vocals and good reverb settings.

Unfortunately, there are no templates. If there were, everyone could be a top-notch engineer by just memorizing a few numbers.

Be wary of anyone who comes in here and says "This is what you have to do", and then starts telling you what works for them, with their equipment, in their room, on their voice, according to their tastes. You have to find what works for you, and that might even be NO compression and NO reverb, for that matter.

[guitar junkie]

I find it interesting that you have what sounds like around 2000 dollars worth of plugins and less than $500 worth of mics...

First off PAY for the software you use.

Next take each mic plug it in and move it around and see for yourself how it sounds.

You might find that using the vocal mic turned upside down and facing you at about a 45 degree angle can capture pretty fair guitar and vocals if you balance your vocal and guitar well during the performance.

As for settings and EQ and Reverb....

I still find it odd that you spent that much money on software if you don't know how to use the stuff...

[Smileyshreads]

Well first off im fine with the styles i do record.. as i said a few times through out this topic.. This is a completly new style for me to record.. i dont know what goes good with this style.. take a listen to my music page.. put this after myspace . com

/smiley39sstudio

second. i bought all this nice stuff so i have it while i learn other styles... That way i am not gonna be limited when i need something its already there... My band pulls in a few thousand every 2 weeks just from bar gigs so as you make it sound like "I am not wasting my money" im using they spare money i get out of gigs and using it to get things i think are nice or useful for me

[Smileyshreads]

ok so my brother wanted to record a song he wrote.. soo here is what i have soo far.. please give some input on this and tell me what i could do to make it better.. its just acoustic and vocals

http://www.box.net/shared/fa0uss8of1

[jeliot86]

Though I'm new to recording and in the same boat as you........
Trying to make my brother a star......

Then he can leave me in the dust and find a REAL bass player.

Anyways what setup did you end up going with? Mics? Technique? Signal Chain? Could help me out a lot.

[Smileyshreads]

well he insisted on using his own mics and guitar so if he wants to record himself he can get close to the same sound.. i used his AKG perception 220, around the 12 fret then i used my 2 shure sm57 mics one over his shoulder capturing what you would hear if u were playing and one back a bit aiming between the bridge and soundhole. i also had a di line and tracked that pretty quiet. added some verb, on vocals i just used the RSO vocal magic little eq,and bit a verb.

again im not expert i came here to learn haha. so mine was just trial and error