Fixing out of time drum hits

[Cold Fusion]

I want to know if anyone out there has a method of correcting drum hits that may not fall on the beat. I can usually go through the track and split/adjust to match the beat and correct any minor timing issues that the drummer may have made. I would like to find a plugin or a method for snapping the whole drum track to the beat so that it will correct every hit that is off the beat.

Thank you in advance

Richard

[astoebe]

Beat Detector in ProTools?

[mattr]

I used to cut everything up manually and shuffle things around with relatively good results, but it was hugely time-consuming and messy.

I now use audiosnap in Sonar which is brilliant to use and very versatile. It also uses some very good time-stretch algorithms from izotope which means the results sound incredibly natural (providing the drummer wasn't completely hopeless!). Most of the time you'll still need to work through and tweak bits here and there, but the quantize function is good for getting most of it lined up.

My normal procedure is to quantize the kick and the snare and work through these to correct any incorrect quantization (which you can do just by dragging the marker by the hit). Then I set the transient detection threshold on the overhead track so that only the snare and tom hits are marked and quantize that to the markers placed on the snare and tom hits (this is a really useful feature, allowing you to quantize things based on other tracks and not just a fixed grid). This way the snare hits in the overheads are properly lined up with the snare track.

[doulos24]

how about you re record it?

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by doulos24

how about you re record it?

What he said. If you can't get a good take, practice more or simplify your ideas.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by doulos24

how about you re record it?

Originally Posted by Greg_L

What he said. If you can't get a good take, practice more or simplify your ideas.

100%. What is it with being happy with shitty takes and then trying to fix them later???? This is a no-brainer. Practice and get it right.

[eternalpayn]

Originally Posted by Cold Fusion

I want to know if anyone out there has a method of correcting drum hits that may not fall on the beat. I can usually go through the track and split/adjust to match the beat and correct any minor timing issues that the drummer may have made. I would like to find a plugin or a method for snapping the whole drum track to the beat so that it will correct every hit that is off the beat.

Thank you in advance

Richard

Plugins that do this take the life out of the drums, and make them sound like a machine, from what I've heard.

[mattr]

Yes, but sometimes you don't have access to world-class session drummers and so getting the best take the drummer can manage then fixing it a bit is the best option for some of us. If done properly it can sound natural and good, just like any other technique used to improve mixes.

So what if its cheating?

You can't say you don't (even occasionally) comp some parts? Equally with this one could argue that a enough musician should be able to manage it in one take.

And the whole basis of multi-track/multi-take recording, is that cheating too? "Record it all live!" scream the cynics, "No overdubs!"




I also think it depends hugely on what genre of music we're talking about - I would never even considering doing this to delicate jazz drums.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by mattr

Yes, but sometimes you don't have access to world-class session drummers and so getting the best take the drummer can manage then fixing it a bit is the best option for some of us. If done properly it can sound natural and good, just like any other technique used to improve mixes.

So what if its cheating?

You can't say you don't (even occasionally) comp some parts? Equally with this one could argue that a enough musician should be able to manage it in one take.

And the whole basis of multi-track/multi-take recording, is that cheating too? "Record it all live!" scream the cynics, "No overdubs!"




I also think it depends hugely on what genre of music we're talking about - I would never even considering doing this to delicate jazz drums.

I think you're totally exaggerating all through your post. Nobody said anything about world-class session drummers, and you don't need one to get useable takes. And nobody said anything about not punching in, so your accusation of "get it all in one take" is totally mis-placed.

The time it takes to go through a song and correct 4 minutes of bad hits has got to be longer than the time it would take to punch-in the bad parts or re-do the track, especially since it's not as easy as one may think to find silence in the spaces between the hits you want to move. You can't just move the snare if the snare is off. You would also have to move the overhead track, too, and that won't always work.

The MOST important part of the job of being a drummer is keeping time. So, like I said, nobody's talking about hiring virtuosos here. Even someone who could only do "Ringo" beats and rolls should be able to do them on time. If they can't, they need to practice. I know that's a bad word in today's world of "press a button and get instant results", but some people still believe in it.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by mattr

Yes, but sometimes you don't have access to world-class session drummers and so getting the best take the drummer can manage then fixing it a bit is the best option for some of us. If done properly it can sound natural and good, just like any other technique used to improve mixes.

So what if its cheating?

You can't say you don't (even occasionally) comp some parts? Equally with this one could argue that a enough musician should be able to manage it in one take.

And the whole basis of multi-track/multi-take recording, is that cheating too? "Record it all live!" scream the cynics, "No overdubs!"




I also think it depends hugely on what genre of music we're talking about - I would never even considering doing this to delicate jazz drums.

That was really gay.

[drossfile]

Originally Posted by RAMI

I think you're totally exaggerating all through your post. Nobody said anything about world-class session drummers, and you don't need one to get useable takes. And nobody said anything about not punching in, so your accusation of "get it all in one take" is totally mis-placed.

The time it takes to go through a song and correct 4 minutes of bad hits has got to be longer than the time it would take to punch-in the bad parts or re-do the track, especially since it's not as easy as one may think to find silence in the spaces between the hits you want to move. You can't just move the snare if the snare is off. You would also have to move the overhead track, too, and that won't always work.

The MOST important part of the job of being a drummer is keeping time. So, like I said, nobody's talking about hiring virtuosos here. Even someone who could only do "Ringo" beats and rolls should be able to do them on time. If they can't, they need to practice. I know that's a bad word in today's world of "press a button and get instant results", but some people still believe in it.

just 2 nights ago i did a take about 20 times on a TEN MINUTE SONG and finally ended up throwing my headphones and screaming expletives.

i opted for a punch-in on the 2-minute section that was driving me batty.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by drossfile

just 2 nights ago i did a take about 20 times on a TEN MINUTE SONG and finally ended up throwing my headphones and screaming expletives.

i opted for a punch-in on the 2-minute section that was driving me batty.

That's what you get for writing 10 minute songs.

[Greg_L]

I guess it would depend on your overall goal. For me, the process is more fun/important than the end result. To get the best end result, I have to have fun during the process. I like playing my drums better than editing drum tracks. I'll record something until I'm satisfied. If it takes a week, so be it. I'm not on any time schedule. A good take will always sound better than an edited one. Besides, I couldn't be happy with something of mine that I knew isn't real. I take some pride in my stuff.

[drossfile]

Originally Posted by RAMI

That's what you get for writing 10 minute songs.

yeah, i just can't seem to help myself. and the stuff i've been writing lately has really been kinda bizarre. i think you'll like it.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by drossfile

yeah, i just can't seem to help myself. and the stuff i've been writing lately has really been kinda bizarre. i think you'll like it.

I'm sure I will. I like all your other stuff.

[drossfile]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

I guess it would depend on your overall goal. For me, the process is more fun/important than the end result. To get the best end result, I have to have fun during the process. I like playing my drums better than editing drum tracks. I'll record something until I'm satisfied. If it takes a week, so be it. I'm not on any time schedule. A good take will always sound better than an edited one. Besides, I couldn't be happy with something of mine that I knew isn't real. I take some pride in my stuff.

yeah, i'm the same way (other than the occasional punch-in, which seems harmless enough).

but i also get why an engineer would want to scoot things around. i wouldn't do it myself, but if i had a protools studio and was getting paid to record bands instead of just my own stuff, i might entertain the idea of tightening up performances for crappy musicians, if for no other reason than to be able to tolerate putting my name in the credits. but if i was the drummer in that band, there's no way i'm going on the clock at a pro studio until i (and the rest of the band) have the song down. i'm always mystified when i hear a sloppy performance on a studio effort.

[drossfile]

Originally Posted by RAMI

I'm sure I will. I like all your other stuff.

thanks homey! i like your stuff too, when you're not wearing a cowboy hat! yeehaw!!!

















just bustin' balls my friend...

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by drossfile

yeah, i'm the same way (other than the occasional punch-in, which seems harmless enough).

:

Yeah punch-ins are fine. It's still you playing the part to fix it as opposed to mouse-fucking it to death with clicks and edits.

[doulos24]

Yes, but sometimes you don't have access to world-class session drummers and so getting the best take the drummer can manage then fixing it a bit is the best option for some of us. If done properly it can sound natural and good, just like any other technique used to improve mixes.

if its one or two hits i agree it can be done if its more then that re record it

I've had guys who just shouldn't of been drummers on projects, and ive actully had them go in and re record just the snare hits on a drum multi track cause he couldnt get the timming right. To be fair i heard it during tracking ,but if you have the option and its say more then 2 or 3 hits just make them re record it or punch in. I can replace bad drum sounds easier then I can bad rhythm