Do these songs sound similar?

[gtarman59]

I put a song up on MySpace--nothing fancy, just something I wrote and put together as a sort of experiment. No vocals, or anything. A few weeks later, my former collaborator and brother-in-law put up a song on his page that sounds a bit familiar. There are obvious differences, but...well you be the judge. I know my playing is sloppy--I'm not really looking for constructive criticism--just objective opinions about the two songs, and whether or not I'm going crazy.

Mine is called "Take Your Time": myspace.com/ramshacklefury

His is "Expressor": myspace.com/atomiceleven

Thanks in advance.

[Toby5]

I don't think you're going crazy. There is a similarity between the songs. I've had my songs taken after I left bands too. It's not a good feeling, especially when the song is not your vision of what it should sound like. I look at it like this, if they have to take something they didn't write, then they are losers with no talent and need to feed off others, and I know that I will come up with more songs without any help so, there loss.

[gtarman59]

Thanks. I just needed an impartial opinion. The thing that gets me is that we didn't even write that one together.

[Frankie Rage]

I remember playing a song I wrote to a band member and he didn't rate it, so we let it go. Six months later he played my song back to me saying it was his! I honestly don't think he'd realised he'd nicked it, but it was so close it had to be. I didn't say anything as he was a treasured pal and trusted mate in all respects.

This may not be the case here though...

[Whatmysay]

Sound same to me.

I use to sleep with the radio on as a teenager and I wrote a couple of great songs (sections really) that other people had already done - actually I still do it now I just call it plagiarism, not sleep induced learning!

It is hard enough trying to control who we fall in love with - so you can't be blamed for who they are related to!

[gtarman59]

Originally Posted by Whatmysay

It is hard enough trying to control who we fall in love with - so you can't be blamed for who they are related to!

Too true!

[thestuckup]

I do not get it when people do this (copy someone else's stuff) and I usually want to be naive about it but it is a serious concern of mine - I mean even somebody infinitely famous like coldplay was brazen enough to rip off satriani..

I have a question though for people who are published songwriters (in the US specifically): Say I am going to get copyrights on some songs or an album I am in the process of recording or writing, and I also play these songs live - is it enough to put them on myspace or some publicly accessible websight to ensure that if someone steals them from me I have some legal recourse **man i hate even thinking about this** i t's just that i have had a similar experience to the ones mentioned above and it has made me really paranoid. I am probably way too confident in my songs - even if they never make money though it would be nice to know that if I wanted to I could bring the hammer down on a plagiarist - not that I would, just comfort in knowing.

[gecko zzed]

Originally Posted by thestuckup

I have a question though for people who are published songwriters (in the US specifically): Say I am going to get copyrights on some songs or an album I am in the process of recording or writing, and I also play these songs live - is it enough to put them on myspace or some publicly accessible websight to ensure that if someone steals them from me I have some legal recourse **man i hate even thinking about this** i t's just that i have had a similar experience to the ones mentioned above and it has made me really paranoid. I am probably way too confident in my songs - even if they never make money though it would be nice to know that if I wanted to I could bring the hammer down on a plagiarist - not that I would, just comfort in knowing.

I'm not sure how the system works in the US, but in Australia, the most effective way is to register the songs with APRA, an organisation established to register copyright. This secures your copyright legally, and APRA also collects royalties on your behalf. I don't know the equivalent in US. Someone else here might.

[Hakea]

+1 to APRA in Australia, especially if you expect to generate any performance royalties. There are similar ones in the US.

As far as I can tell, both in the USA and Australia there is no requirement to register anything anywhere in order to establish copyright. You just need some way of establishing the date that you created a work. "Poor man's Copyright" - mailing yourself a sealed registered copy, and keeping it unopened, is considered to be somewhat dodgy, presumably because the seals could be fiddled and faked. But I imagine that posting it to a site like this could be quite strong - as it gives a dated record and some witnesses.

The bottom line though is it's all pretty academic unless you have both the will and the financial muscle (and I mean a LOT of financial muscle indeed) to fight a case in court. All songs have some similarities to others - whether it's a general theme, a chord progression, a rhythm, part of the melody, a line or key phrase from the lyrics, or whatever. Whether you've infringed something or merely covered similar ground is not at all easy to establish and comes down to legal opinion, and who has the best lawyers. Example: Sue your way to fame and fortune

I used to design and make wooden puzzles and furniture and I looked into the possibility of copyrighting some unusual and original three dimensional puzzles. It would have been a waste of time. Copiers needed to change only a few elements to get around any alleged protection. And as I didn't invent the table, the dresser, the chair, or various other things that I made variations of, I felt that I wasn't in a very strong position to complain when my puzzle designs were indeed copied. Such is life.

Nothing I write could be likely to be a hit without a band with some prior publicity profile taking it on, a great deal of time and money being spent on production and arranging, and a prodigious budget for promotion and publicity. In theory you can sidestep some of that if you have an uncanny knack for self publicity (using the net for instance) but making good money that way is still not considered much of a bet. If anybody here cracks it though, please let me know how...

So I'm pretty relaxed about it and, if anything I'm more concerned about accidentally ripping off something written by somebody who does have a good lawyer...

Cheers,

Chris

Details at the US Copyright Office:

Facts about Copyright

Sample quote:

How to Secure a Copyright

Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See “Copyright Registration.”

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. “Copies” are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. “Phonorecords” are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the “work”) can be fixed in sheet music (“copies”) or in phonograph disks (“phonorecords”), or both. If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.

[formant74]

Sounds like he did "borrow" the main points in your music but changed it just enough to be his own.
The poor mans copyright is in no way legal, don't even try it. To own a copyright, under the current laws, any original work that's fixed on something tangible is automattically protected under the laws of copright. Tangible means written or recorded. If you sing an original song for your friends or family, you do not have a copyright. If you sing or play into a recording devise, you do. It's not as hard as people think to copyright songs. It's only $20 to do so.
If you aren't able to at that time, before playing a new song for anyone, record it first, write down the name of the song on the tape or cd and make sure you put the C and circle, the date and your name on it. You now have the copyrights to that song. If you change it any, do the same thing each time and keep them somewhere safe.