Head relapping?

[poopchute]

Hey guys,
where is the best company or place to get heads relapped? I was looking at jrf magnetics. They list the cost as 300.00 for 1/2 inch 8 tracks. I have a tsr-8 and it only has 2 heads not 3. So Im hoping to get a deal of some kind cause its not a normal 3 head job only 2. If they said 200 instead of 3 Id say sure.
So Im looking for other options...
Do certain companies do a better job?
And when you hear all this talk about alinging the heads. If you just send in the heads on the mounting plate do they align it onto that and thats good? Or does the new heads have to be aligned ON the machine?

[RRuskin]

Welcome to the realities of the world of analog! JRF is among the best in the business. What leads you to think your heads need a re-lap?

[sweetbeats]

Yeah-yeah...tell us about your heads.

Also, yes, if you do send your heads to JRF you want to send them on the headblock. The will the optically align the heads with the guides. IIRC that is included in the relap price.

[poopchute]

Well I have what I beleive is called keystoning. Where one side has a wider groove or wear pattern and the other side is less. But another thing that leads me to think I should get them relapped is that Tracks 1 and 8 sometimes experience dropouts. I have not noticed this on tracks 2 and 7. But Im thinking that I may need relapping.
Now when they say relapping or refurbish that means they will make them as close to new as can be done on used heads right? I emailed JRF but havent heard back. I just saw on their site that they charge 3oo for 1/2 inch 8 track heads. But Im assuming that would be for a standard 3 head block. Since mine is only 2 heads. 1 Erase head and 1 rec/playback head I would hope that they could cut that price down to 200. Which figures out at 100 bucks a head.
Like I said Im "Hopeing" since I havent heard anything yet.
So I dont need to send the whole machine in to get them aligned? Just the block or assembly?
I can get some pics up in a day when I get my camera mailed back from my grandmas house...I left it there for Christmas...

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by poopchute

Well I have what I beleive is called keystoning. Where one side has a wider groove or wear pattern and the other side is less. But another thing that leads me to think I should get them relapped is that Tracks 1 and 8 sometimes experience dropouts. I have not noticed this on tracks 2 and 7. But Im thinking that I may need relapping.
Now when they say relapping or refurbish that means they will make them as close to new as can be done on used heads right? I emailed JRF but havent heard back. I just saw on their site that they charge 3oo for 1/2 inch 8 track heads. But Im assuming that would be for a standard 3 head block. Since mine is only 2 heads. 1 Erase head and 1 rec/playback head I would hope that they could cut that price down to 200. Which figures out at 100 bucks a head.
Like I said Im "Hopeing" since I havent heard anything yet.
So I dont need to send the whole machine in to get them aligned? Just the block or assembly?
I can get some pics up in a day when I get my camera mailed back from my grandmas house...I left it there for Christmas...

You definitely have wear. You might try running a reel of 1/2" paper leader in play mode a time or 2 as a quick 'n dirty/temporary fix. It's been known to work. Before doing anything, make certain that it is a head issue and not wear and tear on the edges of the tape(s) being used. Checking the current head alignment is also a good idea.

[sweetbeats]

Yes, put up some pics, and yes you only have to send in the block with heads and guides attached, not the whole deck.

[evm1024]

Let me know if you want to relay those heads yourself. You would also need to align them as well. If you need to save a few $$ you might want to try that.

Get the photos up - use a white sheet of paper to control the reflections

Regards, Ethan

[poopchute]

I guess I'd honestly rather pony up the money and have it done right by someplace that knows what they are doing. Besides I could screw it up even with the best instructions.
I do have a couple more basic questions tho. What all are they doing when they relapp the heads? Is relapping just basically adding more clear or acrylic onto whatever is wore off? If thats what it is then how can relapping help if Im getting drop outs on channels 1 and 8? Is there another procedure that actually repairs the bands underneath if they are damaged? Im 99% sure I dont have any damage underneath in the bands but I could be wrong...

[sweetbeats]

poopchute,

If you've never taken a peek at analogrules.com, go here to look at a page they have on bad heads; what's happening when they wear, what to look for and all that.

When they relap its kind of like having your brake drums or brake rotors turned on a car if you know what that's all about. They actually grind away the metal until the original profile is restored and they polish them up nice. There is no clear or acrylic...your tape is ridin' metal (unless you have an Akai deck with the glass heads). So that's why heads that are too badly worn can't be relapped (if individual tracks are gapping or there is just not enough material left to allow recreating the profile).

Hope that helps.

evm1024 ain't messin' around...

I'll be trying it someday I'm sure, but I've got a spare head or two to screw up if it comes to that...Actually, I'm pretty sure that if the first one doesn't come out right, I'm done with that.

[poopchute]

Hey,
Finally got my camera back. Here are a couple of shots of the heads. Do you think I could benefit from a relapping from JRF magnetics?

[evm1024]

Photo trick - Put a white piece of paper where you can see it reflected in the shiney parts of the head. this will make it easier to see the heads.

That looks like a bit of a keystone to me. Do you see any of the heads gaps? You might be able to see a fine line (which is the head gap). I'm asking about larger gaps.

I think I would be looking for a lower hours head to replace this one... It is not that this one is bad but rather that after lapping it there would be fewer good hours left in it. If you were to send it off to JRF you wold like your money to go a long way.

The erase head looks fine from the photos.

Here are you options as I see it:

1) Live with it as it is

2) Live with it while you look for a newer head then either keep the new head or send it off to JRF for relapping and alignment.

3) send it off to JRF for relapping

Tell you what, send your headstack to me and I'll relap your head and do some minor alignment. You will have to to the Az alignment and calibration.

This way if you have any life left in the head you can be operating while you look for a newer head.

PM me if this interests you.

Regards, Ethan

[poopchute]

Yeah Ive looked at them closely and I dont see any gaps in the tracks. I do actually know what you are talking about.
What I dont understand is why do they call it relapping if all they are really doing is sand it smooth. To me relapping would imply adding some material to the head. So all that is making a head bad is the unevenness of the wear then right?
You would think that you would get better and longer life from a head if you ONLY aligned it. Otherwise you are just accelerating the wear out of the head.
Am I right or way off base?

[evm1024]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapping

THe keystoning is from misalignment and in deed you could misalign them in the opposite direction and have the wear even out. But they would wear out before you got there (or so I think).

One of the problems with keystoning is that you have uneven tension over the head gap. This could lead to audible differences between channels. Then there is the wear and tear on the tape due to the differing positions of the stress points (closer together where the keystone is narrow).

The shape of the head should allow the tape to move smoothly without stress points across the head gap. Heads are worn out when the gap grows bigger than the wavelength that you are trying to record (plus some factor).

Regards, Ethan

[poopchute]

So by looking at my heads do you think its the head wear thats making tracks 1 and 8 fade in and out at times? Im using new Quantegy 456 (New when I bought it about 9 months ago) and it doesnt appear to have any shedding or sticky shed...

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by poopchute

So by looking at my heads do you think its the head wear thats making tracks 1 and 8 fade in and out at times? Im using new Quantegy 456 (New when I bought it about 9 months ago) and it doesnt appear to have any shedding or sticky shed...

Do yourself a favor and get a new reel of currently made tape (in other words not Quantegy) and test to see if you still have same problem. 2 known flaws with Quantegy tape were bad slitting and inconsistent oxide distribution. Either one of which could account for your dropouts.

[analogkid]

The term 'lapping' means polishing - such as with gemstones. Hence "re-lapping" means in effect re-polishing. I believe it is derived from lapidary, which is a gemcutter. Just my best guess of course on the original root of the word.



AK

[Molasar]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

You definitely have wear. You might try running a reel of 1/2" paper leader in play mode a time or 2 as a quick 'n dirty/temporary fix. It's been known to work. Before doing anything, make certain that it is a head issue and not wear and tear on the edges of the tape(s) being used. Checking the current head alignment is also a good idea.

Can you please broadened/expanded on this paper leader technique? Sounds interesting. What's it about?

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by Molasar

Can you please broadened/expanded on this paper leader technique? Sounds interesting. What's it about?

You simply get a reel of paper leader and play it from one end to the other. It won't fix severe wear but can polish out minor irregularities. If you do it, I'd advise setting azimuth on the heads beforehand.

Have you tried a new, non Ampex/Quantegy reel of tape to verify that it's head wear and not defective/worn tape?