Acoustic Guitar and vocal mixing templates?

[phriq]

Hey Everyone,

I have recently recorded a few songs (multiple acoustic guitar parts and vocals) using my friends Pro Tools LE and a 003 Digidesign interface. I also used my SM57A Beta mic. (I know not the perfect mic, but unfortunately it is all I have right now). My friend had to leave town so I will be taking these raw acoustic and vocal tracks and mixing it all together on my system that uses Adobe Audition.

I was wondering if anyone had general techniques, settings, or screenshots of settings from any DAW that you use for mixing your acoustic and vocals that I could use as templates to use for my mixes of these songs. I just have the raw tracks so I was wondering about compression, Dynamics EQ, reverb and any areas you work with on acoustic and vocals.

Thanks very much!

[SouthSIDE Glen]

There are no templates. The recipe is as follows:

1. Listen to what you have to work with.

2. Let the content tell/inspire you to picture how to bring out the best in it; i.e. how you think it should sound.

3. Compare how it does sound with how you think it should sound.

4. Do what is necessary to exercise the difference.

G.

[phriq]

Thank you very much for those tips....I am pretty new to this though, the problem is I don't know what to experiment with and what values to change. that what i am wondering about. thank you though for the information.

[hessmetal]

heres some things that i do that you might like to try.
just some things that ive had decent luck with.

if you have multiple guitar tracks, and no other instruments, try panning them all around keeping the most important one near the middle or doubled left and right. with the others, play around with panning and volume to give depth and to try to fill up the space and make it sound whole.

also, as far as eq and such, i always put some sort of compressor on the acoustic guitar to keep it kind of steady. also, try out some things like a small mid cut and a little high boost depending on what your raw tracks need. you recorded with a dynamic, so a high boost might really bring the guitars to life, might not, but worth a try! i always like to keep acoustic recordings pretty bare but kinda shiny sounding. just my personal preference.

Reverb, also depending on what sound you want, its always cool to add a little reverb to an acoustic recording, however over the years, i keep using less and less and really getting more if you know what i mean. not too much on the guitars cause it might muddy them up a little.

with vocals, there are all kinds of things to try, but a few ive had success with are definitely compression, maybe some limiting depending on your raw track, dont be afraid to really test out your eqing, as in push it way up or way down till you like it!! sorry, im not great at remembering specific hz.. but also try literally duplicating the track and zooming in and nudging one of them over a little (aka delaying it) and panning them hard left and right for things like choruses or key phrases. ive duplicated a track a few times before and kept it really quiet in the mix, but it definitely added some nice presence!

i guess i could go on and on, but really, just dont be afraid to try anything!! anything you can think of!! save an unmixed copy of the tracks in case you want to start over fresh!

hopefully that helps as i know its frusterating when you have no clue where to start.. good luck!! should post them when you get finished. would be anxious to hear it and maybe offer some advice

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by phriq

Thank you very much for those tips....I am pretty new to this though, the problem is I don't know what to experiment with and what values to change. that what i am wondering about. thank you though for the information.

I understand your situation. The problem is that there is no pat answer. It's not as if one can accurately say, well with guitar you should always do this, or even most of the time do that, and with vocals this and that is what you gotta do. That's just not how these things work.

You need two fundamental skills: you need the ear to listen analytically to what you got, and you need the knowledge of how the gear you have actually affects the sound. Put those two together and you have the ability to do what I outlined in the first post.

Learning the gear is the easy part. Getting the ear takes practice.

You have two choices. The first is to take your time and develop these skills (in which case we can give you pointer there). The second is to hand your mixing off to someone else who knows how to do this stuff.

G.

[phriq]

Originally Posted by hessmetal

but also try literally duplicating the track and zooming in and nudging one of them over a little (aka delaying it) and panning them hard left and right for things like choruses or key phrases. ive duplicated a track a few times before and kept it really quiet in the mix, but it definitely added some nice presence!

All the information you have given has been EXTREMELY helpful. Thank You so Much! However, I have a question specifically regarding this part of your response. I have been mixing almost all day and really like this idea. I have even used it in some of my guitar and it gives it AMAZING presence and sound. However, I have noticed that when I played with doubling and sliding over the second vocal even 1 ms and then panning the first vocal to the left by 85% and the slightly nudged vocal to the right 85% that when I listen to the mix (especially with headphones) that (though all tracks are at the same level) that the vocals seem to predominately sound out of the left ear.

Do you know why this may be? Both tracks are at the exact same level. The top track is 85% to the left ear and the bottom track (which is slid 1ms to the right) is panned 85% to the right ear. So I am confused as to why the left ear sounds so overpowering.

I have tried listening with other headphones as well. I am curious if its like some sub conscience thing where since the left ear hears it first (even though the right ear gets it just 1 ms later) that the left ear amplifies it or something like that. or is this something that is expected with doubling and panning?

[hessmetal]

hmm i feel like ive ran into this before too. are all the other tracks balanced in the stereo spectrum? and do you have some sort of master limiter or compressor that might be compensating the track if say besides the vocals the left side is more empty? in the same sense, did you actually duplicate the track i.e. (all settings and plug ins are exactly the same) or did you copy the file to a new track, where maybe the settings differ.

besides that, and i mean this with no sarcasm or anything, just turn it down til it sounds right and go check the mix in your car or something. if it works, it works. good luck!

[phriq]

Originally Posted by hessmetal

hmm i feel like ive ran into this before too. are all the other tracks balanced in the stereo spectrum? and do you have some sort of master limiter or compressor that might be compensating the track if say besides the vocals the left side is more empty? in the same sense, did you actually duplicate the track i.e. (all settings and plug ins are exactly the same) or did you copy the file to a new track, where maybe the settings differ.

besides that, and i mean this with no sarcasm or anything, just turn it down til it sounds right and go check the mix in your car or something. if it works, it works. good luck!

Thanks very much for that info. I started to actually increase the volume of the right ear track to see if I could even it out. I was getting a little concerned though because it took roughly 6 db if not a little more till it sounded equal. In the bottom of my DAW when playing the track (where it shows the levels of each year and if it clips, it appears equal when the levels are the same, but when i lifted the volume that 6db of the right ear, the right level was consistently always higher, and this worried me a little.

As for the tracks, the second track is an exact clone of the first track. I used the same effects (a mid cut and hi boost, some compression and reverb) so the tracks should be identical. I hope to have a mix of this posted tomorrow so you can here it and give any advice. I appreciate all your info so far!

I'll let you know when the song is posted so you can hear. But if before that, you have any other ideas on the leveling of my doubled tracks, I would love to hear it. Thanks again!

[phriq]

Here is the link to the mix I have right now:

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=16302

Notice how the left ear does seem to have stronger vocals. Let me know of any suggestions you may have. Thanks!

[suprstar]

Originally Posted by hessmetal

... but also try literally duplicating the track and zooming in and nudging one of them over a little (aka delaying it) and panning them hard left and right ...

I do that all the time for vox and guitars, I like that effect a lot. I don't always pan em, but ya, that's a neat little trick that sounds really good in a lot of places.

To the OP - there can't really be a 'template' for settings. For EQ, your source tone, the room, the mic, the mic placement, the preamp, everything can make your sound vary wildly. For compression, A guitarist or drummer with perfect control might not need ANY, whereas a worse player unintentionally varies the strength of notes or drum hits will need a ton.

[NYMorningstar]

Originally Posted by phriq

However, I have noticed that when I played with doubling and sliding over the second vocal even 1 ms and then panning the first vocal to the left by 85% and the slightly nudged vocal to the right 85% that when I listen to the mix (especially with headphones) that (though all tracks are at the same level) that the vocals seem to predominately sound out of the left ear.

The left side sounds dominant because you hear that one first. Take the delay off the right track and they will sound the same again, which they are, which is why you shouldn't dup a track and pan it(a waste of resources).

[hessmetal]

hi i listened to your mix and it sounds pretty good. the left does sound a little louder, and i would maybe bring the delay time on the reverb down a little.

with the dup. its just an idea to try. and 1ms is not going to make a side 6db louder because you "hear it first" i would just suggest working with panning and volume til its placed where you want. or always just go back to leaving the single vocal track in the middle and trying out the mix that way.

duplicating a track is fine, i dont understand how that could be a waste of resources, but whatever. im just trying to get you in the right direction to be creative and not be afraid to try anything. i think the mix is sounding great so far!

[NYMorningstar]

Originally Posted by hessmetal

with the dup. its just an idea to try. and 1ms is not going to make a side 6db louder because you "hear it first"

If you know what it isn't, you must know what it is, aye? What exactly is it then?

Experimenting is a great idea. Duplicating a track and panning it is not a good idea. It only makes it louder which you can do by just pushing the fader which doesn't use up all that extra processing power needed for an extra track.

[phriq]

Thanks so much for the information to everybody! I think I have decided to take out the 1ms shift of the second track in the vocals. I will leave the pans and duplicate track in though. I like the fullness both tracks gives.

I do have a few dup tracks panned with the second track slightly shifted for my guitar. I really like the sound that gives having that ever so slight delay.

I also have a lot of the lead tracks panned so not everything is so centered. That's one thing I don't like is having a very "centered" mix. I like listening with headphones and each ear getting its own part of the song.

Any other suggestions?

[NYMorningstar]

Originally Posted by phriq

I will leave the pans and duplicate track in though. I like the fullness both tracks gives...


Any other suggestions?

Duping the track and panning it doesn't make it more full, it just makes it louder. What you want to do is to sing the part twice and pan that. Give it a try and hear the difference.

[hessmetal]

im pretty sure from his first post, he just has the tracks and cannot record anymore. i agree 100% that actually doubling a part is gonna be a much better answer to the vocals, but given what he has to work with duplicating and shifting can sometimes have similar results.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by hessmetal

im pretty sure from his first post, he just has the tracks and cannot record anymore. i agree 100% that actually doubling a part is gonna be a much better answer to the vocals, but given what he has to work with duplicating and shifting can sometimes have similar results.

If you just dup a track and move the dup to the other side, nothing happens other than an apparent increase in volume. It is no different than running a mono track down the middle and bumping the volume by 3dB or so.

Sure you can throw a delay on the dup track to make a difference, but all that is doing is manually creating a delay effect which is probably easier done by using an actual delay effect rather than creating your own from scratch.

G.

[phriq]

I have heard that recording two vocal tracks and having them panned is a good idea. however, I have noticed that your singing has to be spot on for both takes. for when you take breathes, end your notes and the tone and all that has to be the same.. I am not limited to just 2 tracks though.