Website to mix/master songs for you...

[shackrock]

Hi all. So I've begun coding a site to allow just this - Users can login and upload their song files to the site. At this point other users will bid on an amount to mix or master the song for them (or do whatever audio work may be needed to the file(s))... much like rentacoder.com - but for audio. And yes, it would be paid for the ones who do the work - by the ones who are asking the work to be done.

I'm wondering, before I continue any further, if there would be a demand for this. Now that home studios are quite popular - I'm seeing a lot of "decent" recordings, but with bad mixes, or bad/no mastering. A site like this could allow anybody who is good at what they do to build up a reputation on there, and get jobs from home recording kids who want a better sounding final result.

Additionally, users could describe types of music they need, and other users could compose for them, record for them, etc. etc. The possibilities would be endless.

Anyway, does this sound like something that people would use? If so, I'm prepared to continue spending the next couple months making a great site!

[BushmasterM4]

Build it and they shall come. I'll bid.

[Waffleness]

Sounds like a great idea. I would use it if it gave me a chance to make money, even a very small amount. Hell, I would probably start mixing for free, as I suspect would be the case.

Make sure its compatible over seas! (UK)

[shackrock]

Yeah that's what I figured! haha.

The real question is if people would post mixes on it at all though. I'm sure the "for free" stuff would happen often, but at some point I'll have to at least make sure I'm paying for its creation/survival. haha.

[NYMorningstar]

It sounds like a good idea but have you run it by an attorney? Are you going to be bonded? Getting insurance? Will this be a hobby or a business? Are you familiar with copyright laws, employment, compensation and disability laws, and the tax laws for services over the net? Building a website is one thing, mastering music files is another but running a business is altogether it's own animal. Keep your eyes open and good luck with it.

[shackrock]

Yep an attorny will (hopefully) handle ALL of that for me! haha.

My main goal is to help people out, as I tihnk it'd be an amazing resource.
But yes, I do expect to make a small profit off of the site, if nothing else for the time I will have put into it by the time it goes live.

[AvalancheFlows]

Yeah I think this would be a great idea! I am one of those people that have "decent" stuff, but I suck ats mixing and don't even know how to go about mastering.

I have tons of songs done, but they only sound mediocre and could sound a LOT better if they had the proper quality going into it.

[NYMorningstar]

Originally Posted by AvalancheFlows

Yeah I think this would be a great idea! I am one of those people that have "decent" stuff, but I suck ats mixing and don't even know how to go about mastering.

I have tons of songs done, but they only sound mediocre and could sound a LOT better if they had the proper quality going into it.

Well that's going to be the thorn when you pay to get your mediocre song to sound a lot better and it ends up being mastered by someone that "suck ats mixing and don't even know how to go about mastering" Ipso facto, he needs a lawyer

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by AvalancheFlows

could sound a LOT better if they had the proper quality going into it.

Which is why I'd like to request that this site not just focus on mixing and mastering, which it seems like anybody with a PC and a Limewire connection thinks they can do, but also reach out to studios that excel in tracking and producing (real music producing, not beat sequencing). The best mixes and masters are made from tracks that virtually "mix themselves" (an exaggeration, but it makes a good point), and the idea that one can make amateur tracks and fix them in the mix, the master or shrinkwrap is one of the ideas that's quickly ruining the sound of today's independent productions.

A needs-matching website like proposed here is not a bad idea, but I vote that it should not wind up specializing in home wreckers that have no idea what they are doing yet will get all the work because they will offer their services for free or nearly free to clients who are broke. Not only does that do a disservice to all, but it will make you very little money

G.

[Chili]

I think the site is a good idea and you should move forward with it. At least as an experiment.

I think it will run as a free market model and will stratify (is that a word?). Meaning the better (more experienced, bigger name) mixers will be able to charge more. The bottom feeders will have opportunity to practice on free stuff and maybe get better and charge more.

For small and project studios, it could be an avenue for more business if the local marketplace isn't paying the bills.

Cheers,

[jmorris]

I have not read the other post so maybe I'm putting my foot in my mouth but.....man, what a dumb ideaNo offense meant! I am very puzzeled by your comment about your seeing(you mean hearing I know) a lot of good recordings but with bad mixes/mastering? I guess Im womdering how you can determine that? But really, I cant imagine anyone putting up a tune,mp3 or waves files to try and seee who will bid the lowest to mix it.For me, I have my price for me to work. I have a threshold I wont go below,I'll let the project walk.How do you determine who gets the job, listen to their work? The end result of the mix or master will be hinged on the tracking. I can just see issues with that after a complete mix comes back from the lowest bidder and it sucks. If a guy has to get work that way there is a reason. Does anyone else agree?.....or am I just in a fowl mood and only care about me??

[shackrock]

Good replies/comments. Here's my reply to those...

First off, as people mix/master/get jobs...intense reviews/feedback will be left by whoever hired the bidder. I hope to have a feature that (if both parties agree) will post the before/after of anything too, so you can HEAR the progress that was made. This is just an example.
I do hope that professionals will be the main ones who would get the most jobs. But, as the bidders will be able to post samples of work, link to external webpages with work, and create a sort of "resume" for themselves - we can let the bid requesters make up their mind on how much to spend and who to spend it on. That's capitalism, no?

Of course my friends that I know call me up once a month to make their songs sound better. I'm happy to do it for them for $10/hr (instead of 20 or 30). Perhaps people don't have friends with studios though, and this site will serve as a place to get help from plenty of people, and at whatever price you can afford.


Finally, I hope to not just see MUSIC on the site, but any audio needs. Perhaps I can tailor it to video and things as well. Too much hum in your recording, but you don't have a noise reduction plugin? Post it up for somebody to process it for you. There's a TON of people with youtube videos who would really benefit from somebody who knows a thing or two about audio cleaning up their files before posting. There's so many jobs I can see this site be useful for.


And again, I want to emphisize the hope that professionals will use and take the site seriously for serious projects. Sure, there will be plenty of horrible home recordings that will get posted, but at the same time there will also be (my hope) plenty of real projects looking for real mastering engineers to do some real work!

- End Rant -
ha!

[jmorris]

Originally Posted by shackrock

Good replies/comments. Here's my reply to those...

First off, as people mix/master/get jobs...intense reviews/feedback will be left by whoever hired the bidder. I hope to have a feature that (if both parties agree) will post the before/after of anything too, so you can HEAR the progress that was made. This is just an example.
I do hope that professionals will be the main ones who would get the most jobs. But, as the bidders will be able to post samples of work, link to external webpages with work, and create a sort of "resume" for themselves - we can let the bid requesters make up their mind on how much to spend and who to spend it on. That's capitalism, no?

Of course my friends that I know call me up once a month to make their songs sound better. I'm happy to do it for them for $10/hr (instead of 20 or 30). Perhaps people don't have friends with studios though, and this site will serve as a place to get help from plenty of people, and at whatever price you can afford.


Finally, I hope to not just see MUSIC on the site, but any audio needs. Perhaps I can tailor it to video and things as well. Too much hum in your recording, but you don't have a noise reduction plugin? Post it up for somebody to process it for you. There's a TON of people with youtube videos who would really benefit from somebody who knows a thing or two about audio cleaning up their files before posting. There's so many jobs I can see this site be useful for.


And again, I want to emphisize the hope that professionals will use and take the site seriously for serious projects. Sure, there will be plenty of horrible home recordings that will get posted, but at the same time there will also be (my hope) plenty of real projects looking for real mastering engineers to do some real work!

- End Rant -
ha!

Hum? do you really think people will enter a bidding war to get"your" music? I would not.I also would not want to bid and commit on mixing something based on hearing a crappy sample.Or if I were a musician or band,I would not want to post files to my song(s) for the world to take and mess with mixing. I dont think ANY band would allow this.Or am I misunderstanding?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by shackrock

I hope to have a feature that (if both parties agree) will post the before/after of anything too, so you can HEAR the progress that was made.

How can one post "before mixing" samples? The only thing there is before mixing are a couple hundred megabytes of raw track recordings...assuming they are in digital.

And as far as before/after mastering, well, we all know how that game is rigged. The uneducated client will *always* think the louder one sounds better, even when it doesn't.

I'm not saying the website won't be popular, or that it's not a decent idea on paper. I'm just dubious that there's a lot of money to be made on a bid system like an eBay for mixing services. In a racket that gets zero respect, where the pros are frowned upon and everybody thinks they can DIY it just as good without actually working at it, the clients are broke, everybody expects their tools to be free, and feel that when they do spend their money, it's better to spend it on magic boxes than on an actual magician, standard capitalism is kinda on life support.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

I also right now put in a standing bid of $45/hr on any audio mixing, editing, refurbishment or audio/video post-production job that comes up.

G.

[shackrock]

Good points.

Sorry I mis-typed about the "I hope to have a feature that (if both parties agree) will post the before/after of anything too, so you can HEAR the progress that was made." I actually meant for mastering (and yes it IS rigged...but hey it's better than no audio sample right?).

I expect that there will be composing/editing bid requests as well. I didn't mean to make it sound like it was a mixing only type thing. Even help with audio for film/video would be welcomed to the site.


Bidding wars: There will be none! This is because nobody can see the bids except the bid requester. Therefore, you state your price, and discuss with the requester - that is all you can do. Beyond that, you can't see who has placed bids or how much they bid the project at. This will keep prices where they are - pro's will be more expensive (and much better), amateurs will be cheap quick and crappy. That's the name of the game though - it just depends what the requester is in the market for.


All trades have snobs, and audio has a lot of audio snobs. The site will be what it is, but the bottom line is that people who know nothing about audio will want to come to it to get people who know SOMETHING about audio to help. ....AT LEAST I HOPE! haha.

[LemonTree]

I'll only charge $5 PH but I'm on a dial-up connection so there's $200 spent on the 40 hours it'll take me to download your project files...


I honestly can't see this taking off. For a start, this is HRDC, we're all here to learn more about doing our own mixing, not to pay someone else to do it so that would pretty much rule this place out as a client base. On another level it might work but you'd obviously have to have some sort of "carefuly watched" pointing system or you get people uploading their own crap mixes and bidding on them under a different name then mixing their own stuff and crediting themselves with a shit load of points to obtain more work. It's a system waiting to be manipulated for all the wrong reasons

[Aled_King]

I think this is a good idea. It certainly has potential to be a profitable business I think.

There are def some issues that will need to be addressed, most of which have been stated; but you aren't claiming to have the finished article right now. I don't know what exactly will be the case if someone has paid for a mix and is far from happy with it, or how you can measure how much time has been spent on a mix, but I guess these are issues for you to sort out.

Overall, I think a great idea, with infinate potential (as you've mentioned, not just mixing/master)

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[RAMI]

No offense to anyone who was polite enough to say they think it's a good idea, but I have to say that I predict it doesn't work. First of all, the OP doesn't seem to know enough about mixing and hasn't thought this through at all, as witenessed by the idea of "before and after" mixes, and a few other statments. How can you have a "before" mix if you're putting your tracks up TO BE MIXED??? The other potential porblems mentioned by a few others are just the tip of the iceberg.

Sorry, I'll be happy for you if you prove me wrong and don't mean any ill-will towards you. But, in my opinion, this is a horrible idea.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by shackrock

the bottom line is that people who know nothing about audio will want to come to it to get people who know SOMETHING about audio to help.

Sure, as long as they don't have to pay for it. But it's amazing how as soon as somebody actually tries putting enough of a value on time, talent and work to try and use it to pay the bills instead of just be a hobby, they are labeled as snobs.

Originally Posted by Lemon Tree

It's a system waiting to be manipulated for all the wrong reasons

What?!?!? you mean people actually manipulate rep point systems to the point where they are rendered completely invalid? And that they do this because they are either too lazy or simply not good enough to actually *earn* the points themselves? Why...why...I'm shocked, shocked!

Originally Posted by Aled_King

I don't know what exactly will be the case if someone has paid for a mix and is far from happy with it, or how you can measure how much time has been spent on a mix, but I guess these are issues for you to sort out.

Now there's one difference between someone who actually knows what they are doing, and someone who really doesn't. Those "issues" you bring up are standard operating procedure for those in this as more than a hobby, and are not "issues" at all; it's all covered in the signed agreement.

And frankly, these are issues that shackrock needs to separate and distance himself from completely unless he wants to be mired down full time in small claims court cases. It has to be explicit that he is just running a meeting ground and that all business agreements are between the two parties hooking up and that he is not responsible for anything himself.

G.

[shackrock]

Originally Posted by RAMI

No offense to anyone who was polite enough to say they think it's a good idea, but I have to say that I predict it doesn't work. First of all, the OP doesn't seem to know enough about mixing and hasn't thought this through at all, as witenessed by the idea of "before and after" mixes, and a few other statments. How can you have a "before" mix if you're putting your tracks up TO BE MIXED??? The other potential porblems mentioned by a few others are just the tip of the iceberg.

Sorry, I'll be happy for you if you prove me wrong and don't mean any ill-will towards you. But, in my opinion, this is a horrible idea.

I wanted to reply to this one at least.

As I said earlier, I had mis-typed into making it sound like I was talking about mixes here. When in fact I was talking about the mastering portion of the site. So you can put a client's final product to the best of his ability. Then, the bidder could put his final master up for comparison. Obviously there would be more rules than this, but yes I am not putting up everything on here right now - just throwing out ideas that were in my head.... like everyone is saying there's a lot of details to be worked out.


I think that this place could be a place for professional work to be done. Even if it's just a meeting ground to find professionals in your state to work on projects with you on person - it still would be a good thing. I will be thinking of all this, and hopefully can come up with something that can work.

[PeterPan17]

Me being a 17 year old kid who records, edits, mixes would definately use this for final mastering.

[Aled_King]

I can imagine alot of people using this service.
As you say, even if it's just a place to meet experienced Mastering engineers, or for new ones to practise and hone their skills; I think it could be good for all parties. As much as some people may be negative about it, if you sort out some of the legal and technical issues, i'm sure their is certainly enough of a market for it.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by PeterPan17

Me being a 17 year old kid who records, edits, mixes would definately use this for final mastering.

I don't want to put you on the spot personally, Peter, but just your own opinion as a typical 17 year old kid who records, edits and mixes; what would you pay to have your CD mastered? And - based upon your personal experience only - do you feel your answer is typical of those in your situation?

And also, why is it you feel you are capable of recording, editing and mixing, but not mastering?

G.

[LemonTree]

Isn't there enough bogus mastering websites out there as it is without giving them all a new feeding ground. I'd like to hear from Mr Script on this one as his own mastering website has suffered from people stealing his equipment list description and even his pictures from his mastering suite to pose as their own. Have you tried searching myspace for "mastering"? my local music press is full of £5 adds for mastering, a lot of which actualy BOAST about getting you the loudest mix possible. It's a joke

All this is gonna do is = less business for the only people in the business that really know what they are doing.

Imagine... Here is your formula,

100 kids with the latest crack warez of T-Racks or Ozone + no experience / a chance to make money = squashed mangled fcuked up wreck of a mess

Sorry but you really have to look at every negative point when even thinking about setting something like this up. Maybe setting up some sort of guild of tried and trusted mastering eng's that have a list of real and checkable credentials. But then if they are that good they don't need to be bidding for work, or do they? Have things gotten that bad?

Just my 2 pence worth

[mcmetal]

i wouldn't say this is a dumb idea but if i was reputable sound engineer i wouldn't even think about attaching my name or reputation to something like this.not crappy recorded tracks anyway which you know would happen.if you want a professional recording you need to go to a professional.if you can do a great job on the individual tracking yourself great but then get off your butt and go to studio and be present during the mixing and learn some things.going to a studio will only benefit you with the knowledge and experience that can only be had in a studio.if money is an object i'm sure there's a lot of folks who would take these kind of projects on to make some cash.