Replacement for VBuletin???

[Freya]

I'm a bit worried about Vbulletin being ditched.

Firstly I'm on a minority platform and I'm wondering if the new forum software will work okay on my computer!

Secondly I'm worried that the new look forums will be as easy to use as they are now?

How drastic will this change be?

love

Freya

[XLR]

What made you think that the vBulletin format is going to be replaced?

[Freya]

Heres what was said on the issue:

"In the mid term: we will move Vbulletin forums to our new technical platform, which will include at least the same features as Vbulletin, but it will be done with our own PHP code and we will add some fine tuned features thanks to your feedback. One more time, it will be done while paying attention to your needs. By the way, one good thing is that the forum will be a big 6 servers cluster, so it will be quick and reliable – one thing HR members were asking for."

Seems clear Vbulletin will be replaced by their own code.

[rory]

Simple reading skills

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showpos...70&postcount=1

[XLR]

Originally Posted by Freya

Heres what was said on the issue:

"In the mid term: we will move Vbulletin forums to our new technical platform, which will include at least the same features as Vbulletin, but it will be done with our own PHP code and we will add some fine tuned features thanks to your feedback. One more time, it will be done while paying attention to your needs. By the way, one good thing is that the forum will be a big 6 servers cluster, so it will be quick and reliable – one thing HR members were asking for."

Seems clear Vbulletin will be replaced by their own code.

I see. Thanks.

It would be kind of risky, business-wise, to change the look of the place all at once. It'd be like having your favorite bar or cafe where you go to hang out and talk to your friends suddenly be redecorated into something completely different.

I hope it doesn't happen.

[lo.fi.love]

Originally Posted by Freya

Firstly I'm on a minority platform and I'm wondering if the new forum software will work okay on my computer!

This is a non-issue. Since you will continue to view the site through a conventional web browser, there is nothing to be concerned with as far as your being on a "minority platform" is concerned.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by lo.fi.love

This is a non-issue. Since you will continue to view the site through a conventional web browser, there is nothing to be concerned with as far as your being on a "minority platform" is concerned.

Thats not at all true, I've been locked out of forums before by server "upgrades" of this nature. This stuff happens all the time on the internet, people get ditched in favour of fancy new features that don't add anything significant.

These days more and more web stuff is written so that it does not degrade gracefully and is reliant entirely on the lastest client side trend.

You only have to look at the whole macromedia flash thing to see that what you are saying is completely untrue.

love

Freya

[lo.fi.love]

Originally Posted by Freya

Thats not at all true, I've been locked out of forums before by server "upgrades" of this nature. This stuff happens all the time on the internet, people get ditched in favour of fancy new features that don't add anything significant.

These days more and more web stuff is written so that it does not degrade gracefully and is reliant entirely on the lastest client side trend.

You only have to look at the whole macromedia flash thing to see that what you are saying is completely untrue.

love

Freya

I'm a web developer of ten years, and I'm confident in what I said.

The forum software itself is irrelevant. Whether the design uses accepted CSS conventions and proper document formatting is where the issues come in, and it's always on behalf of poor designmanship... if that's a word. These days, any designer worth his/her salt creates designs which work across all contemporary browsers from the past three or four years.

There's also no place for Flash in a wholly text-based website.

[dang donkey]

Why write your own forum software, there are many many flavors to choose from?
I can see using php code to add mods to the forum, but totally new software?
What happens if for some reason the partnership dies??? It ain't no fun running through numerous lines of php code, which is what would have to be done if this is proprietary software and this partnership dies.

Importing the DB could be fun;-)

DD

[lo.fi.love]

Originally Posted by dang donkey

Why write your own forum software, there are many many flavors to choose from?
I can see using php code to add mods to the forum, but totally new software?
What happens if for some reason the partnership dies??? It ain't no fun running through numerous lines of php code, which is what would have to be done if this is proprietary software and this partnership dies.

Importing the DB could be fun;-)

DD

Migrating HR.com's bulletin board to AF.com's proprietary code would, in my estimation, streamline management of HR for AF's admins. It seems logical to me, although it would make more sense in an outright purchase of HR.

I'm speaking way, way, waaaay beyond my knowledge of the deal, though. I'm just a casual poster/reader and I wanted to chime in

[Freya]

Originally Posted by lo.fi.love

I'm a web developer of ten years, and I'm confident in what I said.

The forum software itself is irrelevant. Whether the design uses accepted CSS conventions and proper document formatting is where the issues come in, and it's always on behalf of poor designmanship... if that's a word. These days, any designer worth his/her salt creates designs which work across all contemporary browsers from the past three or four years.

There's also no place for Flash in a wholly text-based website.

I'm also confident in what I'm saying and I KNOW that the forum software is relevant. As I say I've been on other forums where they have switched forum software and I have been locked out. Often the forum software is generating HTML and CSS. Yes I agree its possible to write good code that degrades gracefully but I'm seeing it happen less and less.

There may be no place for flash in a largely text based website but that doesn't stop people frequently doing it.

A good example might be the new e-bay search that adds very little but brings with it all manner of problems and seriously degrades the usability of the site.

In my experience you are usually lucky if the site has been tested on Firefox and IE. Maybe Safari if you are lucky. Thats maybe understandable but typically if problems are brought up outside of the scope of those browsers people aren't intrested.

I agree that it is possible to create code that will be standards compliant and will degrade gracefully but usually this doesn't happen these days.

A move away from Vbulletin is likely to mean new HTML/CSS etc. A change from the current system could easily cause problems.

[muttley600]

Moving away from vBulletin would be a seriously unwise move. It is and has been de facto for years now. If the AF guys are talking about moving to the script they are using on their site now, well that would just be professional suicide.

lo.fi.love, I also believe you are spot on as far as platform and browser compatibility are concerned. These things have more to with the version of PHP and MySQL (or whatever database) the server uses than anything else. That's where the issues arise. There isn't much client side involved if any.

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by Freya

I'm also confident in what I'm saying and I KNOW that the forum software is relevant. As I say I've been on other forums where they have switched forum software and I have been locked out. Often the forum software is generating HTML and CSS. Yes I agree its possible to write good code that degrades gracefully but I'm seeing it happen less and less.

There may be no place for flash in a largely text based website but that doesn't stop people frequently doing it.

A good example might be the new e-bay search that adds very little but brings with it all manner of problems and seriously degrades the usability of the site.

In my experience you are usually lucky if the site has been tested on Firefox and IE. Maybe Safari if you are lucky. Thats maybe understandable but typically if problems are brought up outside of the scope of those browsers people aren't intrested.

I agree that it is possible to create code that will be standards compliant and will degrade gracefully but usually this doesn't happen these days.

A move away from Vbulletin is likely to mean new HTML/CSS etc. A change from the current system could easily cause problems.

If your platform is that badly deprecated how on earth do you do anything on the interwebs other than IRC and newsgroups? Seriously what you using agian? I can't think of a half decent bbs script that isn't server side?

There is a difference between badly coded and debugged scripts and standard compliant upgrades or software switching. If they author or commission a script and it bombs it's far more likely it's because it's badly coded not because it's left you behind. It would bomb for all us.

[Sirnothingness]

Originally Posted by rory

Simple reading skills

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showpos...70&postcount=1

Don't drink the kool-aid and don't buy the bullshit. No matter what language it's in.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by muttley600

If your platform is that badly deprecated how on earth do you do anything on the interwebs other than IRC and newsgroups? Seriously what you using agian? I can't think of a half decent bbs script that isn't server side?

There is a difference between badly coded and debugged scripts and standard compliant upgrades or software switching. If they author or commission a script and it bombs it's far more likely it's because it's badly coded not because it's left you behind. It would bomb for all us.

A lot of stuff works just fine, it's just a bit frustrating that the websites are slowly starting to become less and less usable. I've been on a couple of forums where they have changed the server software and it has just ceased to function on my computer at all. It's cest la vie really. It's a bit of a shame when it starts to happen to websites that have always been very well coded and supportive such as the BBC website etc.

You are right tho, no youtube or myspace music or... well those are the big things I miss mostly but other flash based stuff and some forums running weird software.

All the vbulletin sites tend to look similar and have similar functionality. I think its a preety safe bet that the client side code is being generated by Vbulletin in some way. I even run into similar bugs in all the vbulletin systems I use and I know the workarounds. For example the quick edit doesn't work and I have to use advanced edit. No big deal.

I wasn't really looking to get into a technical disscussion about how things work behined the scenes or not tho. The question is more to do with how usable the new system might be and if I might end up being out of the loop.
I was just trying to find out what the situation might be really. Some ellaboration on what we already know.

love

Freya

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by Freya

A lot of stuff works just fine, it's just a bit frustrating that the websites are slowly starting to become less and less usable. I've been on a couple of forums where they have changed the server software and it has just ceased to function on my computer at all. It's cest la vie really. It's a bit of a shame when it starts to happen to websites that have always been very well coded and supportive such as the BBC website etc.

You are right tho, no youtube or myspace music or... well those are the big things I miss mostly but other flash based stuff and some forums running weird software.

All the vbulletin sites tend to look similar and have similar functionality. I think its a preety safe bet that the client side code is being generated by Vbulletin in some way. I even run into similar bugs in all the vbulletin systems I use and I know the workarounds. For example the quick edit doesn't work and I have to use advanced edit. No big deal.

I wasn't really looking to get into a technical disscussion about how things work behined the scenes or not tho. The question is more to do with how usable the new system might be and if I might end up being out of the loop.
I was just trying to find out what the situation might be really. Some ellaboration on what we already know.

love

Freya

I'm not flaming you on it so no problem but vBulletin and nearly all other bbs scripts are written in PHP and MySQL always have been. All of that is handled by the server so any issues are to do with new v.xx they put out not with the script itself.. Your issue is with the browser not the bbs.

The youtube hacks are dependant on the streaming method as well not on the bbs. Thats a whole other issue.

I would say that if you have issues with the BBC site you need to seriously look into how capable your current setup is. That site is about as compliant and cross platform as they get, with the exception if their reliance on realplayer. That really hacks me off as a licence payer.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by muttley600

I'm not flaming you on it so no problem but vBulletin and nearly all other bbs scripts are written in PHP and MySQL always have been. All of that is handled by the server so any issues are to do with new v.xx they put out not with the script itself.. Your issue is with the browser not the bbs.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here?
The fact that the scripts are all running on the server side seems kind of irrelevant, of course they are. In fact the fact they are running PHP scripts or whatever also seems somewhat irrelevant. Do you think that I think the Vbulletin software is running on my computer?

As I said before theoretically yes theres no reason why it couldn't be possible to write code that degrades gracefully and runs on a wide range of browsers. Lets imagine for example that I was running a broswer that was completely incapable of rendering css but rendered HTML just fine. Do you think that browser would fare well on the modern internet?

The youtube hacks are dependant on the streaming method as well not on the bbs. Thats a whole other issue.

erm, I don't want to talk about youtube. It doesn't work because of not having flash basically. I only mentioned it because you asked what I can run on my computer and I was explaining that I can't run those kind of sites but a lot of things work fine. It's nothing really to do with this thread. I shouldn't have entertained you by discussing that aside at all to be fair, as what my computer is or isn't capable of doing is kind of irrelevant. Right now it renders the Home Recording site just fine, as you can see as I'm writing this post on said computer right now. I'm wondering if it will continue to do so. Whether my computer can play the latest videos or your favourite computer game or whether it only can be used for IRC and newsgroups is preety irrelevant. I didn't start this thread to discuss how crap my computer is and it's being kind of trollish to be trying to steer the thread in that direction.

I would say that if you have issues with the BBC site you need to seriously look into how capable your current setup is. That site is about as compliant and cross platform as they get, with the exception if their reliance on realplayer. That really hacks me off as a licence payer.

That was exactly my point. That even the BBC site is changing. You clearly havn't been to the BBC website for at least a couple of months either as they have been ditching Real Player in favour of flash for some time now. Ironically for me Real Player works just fine but it's an understandable move.

Lately little bits of the site have gone slightly wonky. Especially stuff that opens windows to show pictures and that kind of thing. It's a shame as the BBC news site used to render perfectly on even the most obscure and basic web clients but that is starting to change now. Till just recently all these bits of the BBC news site worked just fine. To be fair other parts of the BBC site such as some of the radio station sites are seriously all over the place and won't even render at all in stuff as common as IE5.

The BBC news site has always been amazing in this respect in the past, that is exactly why I have been sad to see things that were working perfectly get broken.

love

Freya

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by Freya

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here?
The fact that the scripts are all running on the server side seems kind of irrelevant, of course they are. In fact the fact they are running PHP scripts or whatever also seems somewhat irrelevant. Do you think that I think the Vbulletin software is running on my computer?

Dude I know what PHP is and what MySQL is I know how and where the vBulletin scripts render and deliver it's content. I also know and can code in PHP and javascript. I'm just a keen hobbyist who has been building and messing about with computers since the original bbs's were run from your front room.

My point is that you seem to think that a change or continual upgrade of the script is going to break for you. That isn't the case. I do have vBulletin running on a remote server because I have a virtual host for a few sites I run. I also have PHP v5 and the latest MySQL running on it too. If any upgrades or changes I made resulting in it breaking your platform It wouldn't worry me because you would be one in a few thousand and as a result of little concern. Most people can run a browser at least capable of doing basic stuff like this. Designers, scriptors and site builders are not going to be interested in testing on browsers or platforms that are that deprecated and unsupported.

As I said before theoretically yes theres no reason why it couldn't be possible to write code that degrades gracefully and runs on a wide range of browsers. Lets imagine for example that I was running a broswer that was completely incapable of rendering css but rendered HTML just fine. Do you think that browser would fare well on the modern internet?

Nope and no one would support such a browser. I do most of my stuff with CSS now and that's the way things are moving. Every browser still supports both and will continue to for the foreseeable future. What your saying is a bit like saying I wish the new ACDC album was available on 78rpm because my hi-fi can't handle cd's.

erm, I don't want to talk about youtube. It doesn't work because of not having flash basically. I only mentioned it because you asked what I can run on my computer and I was explaining that I can't run those kind of sites but a lot of things work fine. It's nothing really to do with this thread. I shouldn't have entertained you by discussing that aside at all to be fair, as what my computer is or isn't capable of doing is kind of irrelevant. Right now it renders the Home Recording site just fine, as you can see as I'm writing this post on said computer right now. I'm wondering if it will continue to do so. Whether my computer can play the latest videos or your favourite computer game or whether it only can be used for IRC and newsgroups is preety irrelevant. I didn't start this thread to discuss how crap my computer is and it's being kind of trollish to be trying to steer the thread in that direction.

That would depend entirely on what browser you machine can run. If you want to run a lot of video or streaming content that is dependant on what media software your machine can run and what codecs you have on you machine. Non of it would be down to which forum software these guys deceide to use. If they do opt to use a client side streaming bb's then your fecked. So far no such software exists.

That was exactly my point. That even the BBC site is changing. You clearly havn't been to the BBC website for at least a couple of months either as they have been ditching Real Player in favour of flash for some time now. Ironically for me Real Player works just fine but it's an understandable move.

The BBC site is my home page. Iplayer is not taking over completely until after digital switch over is complete in 2012. They have a negotiated agreement with realnetworks that runs up to and past 2010. Much of the streaming radio and catchup on the site as well as video reports are still dependant on real player. There are workarounds and I use them.

Lately little bits of the site have gone slightly wonky. Especially stuff that opens windows to show pictures and that kind of thing. It's a shame as the BBC news site used to render perfectly on even the most obscure and basic web clients but that is starting to change now. Till just recently all these bits of the BBC news site worked just fine. To be fair other parts of the BBC site such as some of the radio station sites are seriously all over the place and won't even render at all in stuff as common as IE5.

The BBC news site has always been amazing in this respect in the past, that is exactly why I have been sad to see things that were working perfectly get broken.

The BBC site is the bench mark that others follow your going to have to do one of two things. Live with it or move on up. I for one am not prepared as a licence payer to have them spend money checking backwards compatibility on browsers and machines that are so outdated that only a very few people use them. If anyone is still using IE5 they deserve everything they get. Let me know, I could do with sharpening up my b4ckd00r l33t 5ki115.

[rory]

Originally Posted by Sirnothingness

Don't drink the kool-aid and don't buy the bullshit. No matter what language it's in.

True that. These guys are a bunch of fucking liberal pussies.

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by rory

True that. These guys are a bunch of fucking liberal pussies.

Only if they drink green Kool-Aid. That's the bad stuff.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by Dogman

Only if they drink green Kool-Aid. That's the bad stuff.

You can strip the wax off the linoleum with the red stuff. That's what we did in the navy.

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by Chili

You can strip the wax off the linoleum with the red stuff. That's what we did in the navy.

That's my favorite....

[Freya]

Originally Posted by muttley600

My point is that you seem to think that a change or continual upgrade of the script is going to break for you. That isn't the case. I do have vBulletin running on a remote server because I have a virtual host for a few sites I run.

I've just had the experience with a couple of forums where the forum software has changed and I've been left high and dry. In one case it changed twice and the second time it started working again. It's switching software again in a few days time as the users seem unhappy with it the way it is so who knows what that will bring.

I also have PHP v5 and the latest MySQL running on it too. If any upgrades or changes I made resulting in it breaking your platform It wouldn't worry me because you would be one in a few thousand and as a result of little concern. Most people can run a browser at least capable of doing basic stuff like this. Designers, scriptors and site builders are not going to be interested in testing on browsers or platforms that are that deprecated and unsupported.

This is also my feeling but we are speculating and don't really know. This is why I decided to ask rather than assume.

Nope and no one would support such a browser. I do most of my stuff with CSS now and that's the way things are moving. Every browser still supports both and will continue to for the foreseeable future. What your saying is a bit

It's not true that every browser supports css, unless it's changed recently lynx still doesn't support it. It's a minority thing yes but I have a friend who still uses it with her screenreading software as so far it is still the best solution for her. Some companies do support such software. Thhe bbc news website is available in a low graphics version too.

like saying I wish the new ACDC album was available on 78rpm because my hi-fi can't handle cd's.

No.

What I was asking was more like can I continue to buy new ACDC albums on vinyl or will I have to wait till I get a cd player to hear the new album.

Much of the replies have been more along the lines of it doesn't matter what hi-fi you have or get a life grandma, vinyl is dead which is irrelevant to my question.

I do like the idea of ACDC on a 78rpm record tho! I think that would be intresting!

That would depend entirely on what browser you machine can run. If you want to run a lot of video or streaming content that is dependant on what media software your machine can run and what codecs you have on you machine. Non of it would be down to which forum software these guys deceide to use. If they do opt to use a client side streaming bb's then your fecked. So far no such software exists.

I think you have completely misunderstood what I wrote or maybe you are being deliberately antagonistic but yes it has nothing to do with forum software at all. So yes I shouldn't have brought it up in reply to your trolling about what my computer can and can't do. I was just trying to be friendly and chat about it. Misguidedly so it would appear. As I said whether my computer will play your videos or your favourite computer game is preety irrelevant to the question I asked.

The BBC site is my home page. Iplayer is not taking over completely until after digital switch over is complete in 2012. They have a negotiated agreement with realnetworks that runs up to and past 2010. Much of the streaming radio and catchup on the site as well as video reports are still dependant on real player. There are workarounds and I use them.

If you check out the bbc news video reports today you will find that all new video news stories use embeddable flash players and not real player. Yes the radio is mostly real player although you can often use windows media player too. Go see for yourself!

The BBC site is the bench mark that others follow your going to have to do one of two things. Live with it or move on up.

I'm well aware of this. I think you are still misunderstanding what I'm asking in my original post but I've done the best I can to explain to you so theres not a lot more I can say about that.

[Freya]

Well it seemed like a straightforward kind of a question. I was basically just intrested in where I might stand come the coming changes. Sadly our friends on the mainland seem to have vanished perhaps wisely it would seem as I seem to have only bought upon myself a bunch of trolling and hostility.

I didn't really post here to have a discussion about what people might have up their back end or what kind of php people are suffering from.

As such I'm going to step away from this thread and just cross my fingers.
It's better that way.

Good luck with the Kool Aid, I hope you get the electric batch!

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by Freya

I'm well aware of this. I think you are still misunderstanding what I'm asking in my original post but I've done the best I can to explain to you so theres not a lot more I can say about that.

So what are you asking? Is this site or any other for that matter going to take your deprecated browser and ancient machine into account when they look into replacing or updating their software? I very much doubt it.

And by the way if you consider a polite question about what machine or browser you are using as trolling I think we've gone far enough. You asked a question, I jumped in and gave an opinion and also a few facts (the BBC thing for example) you don't seem to like the response. That isn't trolling, if you want another opinion here on whether I practice trolling here just ask any regular. Anyone except Scooter that is.