Fat Guitar sounds

[dmuzz]

Im on a mission to find a way to get the biggest guitar sound possible, while still maintaining a mono compatability. I've tried MS, Ive tried Delaying a doubled guitar and panning hard left and right, Ive tried using two mics.

BUT I WANT FATTER!!!!

How else do you guys make your guitars sound huge in the mix, and is it mono compatible?

(distorted and clean guitar sounds)

[six]

tracking it twice, three times, four times...?

[tubedude]

Theres a post, I think on this forum, about a month ago or so, someone asked the same thing. Alot of responses, including one of my favorites. Check the subject lines...
Paul

[Hard2Hear]

It depends on exactly what you want. I have gotten a fat tone from my Vox AC-30 cranked to 5 and using a SM57. I have also gotten a big sound from a JCM1000 and a full stack, using an AT4033 up close and a C1000 in the distance, in an all wood room.

What guitars and amps are you using? Thats your first place to start.

H2H

[dachay2tnr]

...or you could feed the guitar lots of milkshakes and donuts. (Worked for my ex-wife.)

[Tom Hicks]

Right on HTH!
Zep I was Pagey using a Tele into an AC30 top boost.That sound (Whole Lotta Love etc.)fat enough for ya?
Lots of old time studios kept Deluxes and Princetons around.Crank a little bitty amp and get those output tubes saturated for extra calories.

Tom

[Hard2Hear]

Tom-
as usual, we agree

OK, here's my #1 favorite guitar/amp combo that I use. I will plug my Tele Deluxe through a Fender Pro Jr. (15 Watt all tube, 2 12ax7t, 2 EL84's 10:speaker). BUT I take the speaker conn off of the amp and hook up a Marshall 1960A to the amp and drive the cab with the little amp. This sound is so dirty and big!!! A major advantage is that the levels aren't blowing you out of the studio, but the tone is great.

Until this moment, this has been the secret setup of myself and a friend, who tours nationally and is a session guitarist in Nashville. He uses a 2X12 cab, though. We talked it over when we both started doing this and came to the close to same setups. And now I have shared our secret with you guys.

I am going to post an MP3 using this setup this weekend. Watch for the MP3 clinic aroung Sunday or so.

H2H

[dmuzz]

Sorry guys, I guess I was a bit ambiguous.

Im talking about from the engineers point of veiw. I want a huge guitar sound in the mix. Not the actually amp vs guitar set up, thats up to the guitarist, I want to capture that sound well (as I already can) and then make a wide 3 dimensional guitar sound that blows your mind in the mix. I also want to main tain some sort of mono compatibility. Just wondering how you guys do it.

[Hard2Hear]

dmuzz-
The fact is that if you're using a $4000 mic, a $5000 preamp, and $100,000 console...and the guitarists sound is thin, then it's thin. No amount of engineering will cover up the ugly tone. That's been the 'secret' through the ages. The guys known for huge sound produce it with their setup.

A Squier through a Crate amp will always sound like a Squier through a Crate amp, no matter what you do to it.

My opinion, your mileage may vary.

H2H

[tubedude]

Something to try...
For those guitars that kinda "sit" outside the speakers, stand out, which is what you might be looking for, try the Waves S1 Stereo imager. Pretty cool. Make sure you are recording stereo tracks though, for best effect. This is assuming you are unsing computers to record, of course...
I think it can be demoed free off the web site... let me know if you like it...
Paul

[dmuzz]

I think I have access to that s1 Imager. I'll try it. Thanks

[enemyofthesun]

yeah you need a good sound to start with.. I had a punk band recently trying to get me to produce green day-like guitar tones out of a squier and a 12" peavey combo. not going to happen


I have recently been experimenting with running guitar tracks track through my new TC helicon/voice prism. I think it does basically what that imaging proccesor does as well as double, triple or quadruple the track with subtle intentional imperfections. Plus it allows you to re-position the track in the stereo field. pretty cool. I think this thing will be real popular soon.

[Igormeister]

for thin-to-fat-guitar surgery use ensoniq DYNASONE plug-in

[ShakesTheClown]

Multi Tracks and Magneto!!!

[Igormeister]

Alien Connections Re-Valver !!!

[BBB]

Originally posted by six
tracking it twice, three times, four times...?

Yupper. Record a few takes. Really thickens it up.

Panning a delayed signal hard L/R can create phasing problems and can also lose it's effect when played back in mono.

Many takes of the same part helps much.

Also, I've had success using a large diaphragm _dynamic_ mic.


Me

[CyanJaguar]

multi tracking? Yeah baby.

Try putting two mics about 4 inches apart and record the guitar into 2 tracks. It sound bigger than.... bigger than .... well bigger than one mic.

[BBB]

Originally posted by CyanJaguar
multi tracking? Yeah baby.

Try putting two mics about 4 inches apart and record the guitar into 2 tracks. It sound bigger than.... bigger than .... well bigger than one mic.

Yeah. Then pan them a bit apart for a bigger sound. Then on playback, selectively mute each and compare the tonal interactions and adjust accordingly.

Alternatively, if you are limited by the number of tracks, mix both mic's to one track. Also, then you can use the other tracks to lay down additional takes of the same part to make it even HUUUUGER!


Me

[little z]

Well, first I would start off by NOT, yes, I said NOT scooping out the mids. Mid-range is pretty important in getting a big chunk of guitar sound going, in my experience at least. Also, try the multiple-tracks thing mentioned earlier, get a different angle on your mic direction when you do it, too!!! You might even want to try a different mic altogether from one guitar track to the next... I would also really try to get it how you want it to sound as if there were no eq, no comp/limiter, no effects, and no sound enhancers... it always sounds better with as little additional post-recording help as possible, at least most of the time it should, anyway. Not an expert, but really try to learn from others and pass on what I feel is good, sound advice!!!!!! Rock on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Little Z (Steve)

[psmith66]

Originally posted by CyanJaguar
Try putting two mics about 4 inches apart and record the guitar into 2 tracks.

Page used to do this alot, except he apparantly would space the mics further apart. For instance, place an amp at the end of a long narrow hallway, putting one mic against the grill and another at the other end of the hallway, tracking each separately. Natural delay. He used to swear by the "distance is depth" approach.