Newbie mixing questions

[dm303102]

I have tracked a song I wrote and have a couple questions on the mix. I am using Cubase SX3 and a dell Vostro laptop with a Yamaha i88x interface.

1. I have got all the effects and EQ's set for the most part to give a decent sound on playback. However, as I added more tracks to the mix, I progressively had to turn down the master fader as it would clip. Now when I compare the volume to a professional mix, it is not even close. How do I avoid having to mix down at a really low volume so the mix won't clip?

2. When I tracked the guitar and bass through the i88x preamp, all the instruments would have a low-end quality lacking clarity on playback. I am under the assumption I should track clean. What am I doing wrong?

[suprstar]

You're tracking too hot. Turn down the gain while tracking, your individual tracks should peak around -15db. You dont want your tracks to get close to zero, you want to anticipate when they all get summed (mixed), the final mix comes in around -2db or so. VERY common mistake, and it's an easy thing to fix, and it'll make your mixes sound SO much better. The perfect mix would be one where all the faders are at 0, tracking is an art,

I beleive your A/D converters, plugins, pretty much everything is designed around the assumption that your tracks will be in the -18 to -12db range. Your mixes will come out better, and your hardware and plugins will be working optimally.

[Chili]

Your mixes are going to have a lot more dynamics than a "professional mix". Meaning, transients and peaks are much louder than the average of your mix. Usually in today's marketplace when a cd is mastered, the songs are run through a limiter which prevents the peaks from being louder than a set level. Then the whole mix can be brought up in volume.

It's typically the peaks of the transients that are clipping. Such as the snare hit or cymbal crash. And they stand out much higher than the rest of the audio in comparison. So if you bring those levels down you can bring the average volume of your mix up.

You can place a limiter plug on your master bus to help tame the peaks and raise the average volume of your mix. Don't be too aggressive with it and if you plan to send your tunes out for mastering, don't do it at all.

This is just my lame-ass way of trying to explain what little I know.... hope it helps.

Peace.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I agree with what suprstar and Chili have said so far ("You must spread reputation around before...") I'd also add:

Originally Posted by dm303102

2. When I tracked the guitar and bass through the i88x preamp, all the instruments would have a low-end quality lacking clarity on playback. I am under the assumption I should track clean. What am I doing wrong?

Are you recording these instruments via microphone or direct in? On the i88x, only channel one offers a hi-z option intended for direct instrument input, and (I think) you have to make sure that high- impedance option is manually selected. If you are trying to record your gits direct through either the mic or line option on channel one - or any option on channel two - unless you are using an impedance matching DI box in-between, you're going to have an impedance mismatch which will probably mess with the sound, especially in a lack of high frequency response. Also know that while it's common to record bass direct, running a guitar direct without going through a git amp first is typically just not going to have the same energy.

G.

[dm303102]

superstar:
so should I re-track every instrument. I read to have the gain on the interface about -3db below clipping which I did. Do you mean turn down the track volume to -15db when recording? It seems like they will be really quiet if I do; but I am going to try when I get home.

SouthSide Glen:
I am going direct in with the guitar and bass. I have the input switch set to hi-impedance. Should I mike the amp clean and mic in from there for the guitar?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by dm303102

SouthSide Glen:
I am going direct in with the guitar and bass. I have the input switch set to hi-impedance. Should I mike the amp clean and mic in from there for the guitar?

It really all depends on just what kind of sound you're shooting for or expecting. If you're expecting your guitar to sound like it sounds when you play it through your amp and cab, you simply are not going to get that kind of sound if you record direct, the tone will be quite different.

As far as the bass goes, that can work better direct, but still might require some massaging to the get sound you want. Once again, it all depends upon what sound you're looking for. You have to compare that sound with the sound you're getting and then figure out what it takes to get from here to there.

G.

[suprstar]

Originally Posted by dm303102

superstar:
so should I re-track every instrument. I read to have the gain on the interface about -3db below clipping which I did. Do you mean turn down the track volume to -15db when recording? It seems like they will be really quiet if I do; but I am going to try when I get home.

Yeah, Im afraid so.. Yes, shoot for ~15db below clipping. I wouldn't trust the markings on the knob or whatever, just start it recording and watch the peak levels, and adjust them til they peak around -15, regardless of what the knob says. Yes it IS a quiet track, but when you mix a bunch of quiet tracks, they'll be louder all together. -15 isn't that quiet anyway if you're recording 24-bit.

The way your tracks are now, the 1st thing you'd have to do would be go turn ALL the tracks down to -15 to compensate for your hot tracking. When you start tracking to -15, you won't have to make too many adjustments right off the bat, it'll be close with all the channel and master faders at 0. The tracks will practically mix themselves!

[mixsit]

Since Dm's original concern is that the tracks are 'stacking up past zero on the mix, I'd say that is not a reason to retrack -if in fact they were not clipped' or damaged on the way in by excess level.
There's good reasons to track at conservative levels (-18 average' not peak?) -headroom on the analog front end, on the inside for track plug-ins, the whole mix system falls into place easier..
But once you have these tracks in the mix app there are still two very benign ways to adjust -at the track -either the track's pre-fader and effect insert (pre gain' or 'trim), and if they're not too far out of whack just running the faders lower.

Even with or without the track levels making a mix at reasonable level there is still 'trim at the master bus fader (same reasoning- plugs on the master see' your desired level) and the master fader itself.

A tweak I very often use for final alignment' is to trim' at the pre-gain on the master for each mix so that the master fader remains at 'zero, master compressor/limiters always react, and the master meters show a consistent relative reference.

[dm303102]

Thank all you guys so so much. I dropped each track about -15 and boosted the master gain and it sounds crystal. It makes sense. You guys just saved my girlfriend's Christmas present and my mix (Deadline after tomorrow. It's a Christmas miracle). Reps to you all (and to all a good night) tomorrow when I get my quota back.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by dm303102

You guys just saved my girlfriend's Christmas present and...

Very cool. Good luck and happy holidays.

Peace.