Les Trem vs. Bigsby

[elenore19]

So I want to add either a bigsby or a les trem to my guitar.
Either way I DO NOT want to drill in my guitar. I have found ways to install both items without drilling. That being said..
Les trem is cheaper, and seems like a decent trem. Bisby looks nice.
I'm leaning towards Les trem.

Thoughts?


Les Trem:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar_tremolos/Les_Trem_Stop-Tailpiece_Tremolo.html
Bigsby w/ Installation method:
http://www.vibramate.com/products.html
http://www.activemusician.com/item--MC.086-8013-003?ref=fg&ovchn=SCU&ovtac=CMP&ovcpn=&ovcrn=Bigsby+B5+Vibrato+Kit++-+Flat+Top+Solid+Body+(Gibson+SG%2C+Flying+V%2C+Exlporer%2C+Firebird)

[Light]

What do you want to do with it?

Also, why no holes in your guitar? If it's valuable enough for it to matter, you shouldn't be doing anything like this to begin with. If it's a modern guitar, it really doesn't matter. New guitars will never be collectors items - there are too many of them out there. Frankly, either way, I'm betting you are going to be dissatisfied. They will both cause significant tuning issues if you use them for in any significant way, and the Bigsby will be worse if it isn't screwed solidly to the guitar. That other one probably just won't work, period.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Unsprung]

Originally Posted by elenore19

So I want to add either a bigsby or a les trem to my guitar.

My first question is, what make/model of guitar? I only ask this because I'm assuming it already has a Tune-O-Matic bridge and stop tail piece, which will make converting to either vibrato system less of a headache, starting out. Although I voted for Bigsby, as I'll be putting a B5 on both my Les Paul Special and Les Paul Melody Maker, if you don't want to add holes to your guitar body, the Les Trem will be the better option. I've seen the Les Trem offered as an option on Reverend guitars that have a stop tail piece. A plus for the Les Trem is, it will be much easier to take the guitar back to original than with a Bigsby, as there are no extra holes created with the Les Trem conversion.

Matt

[TWANGthang]

I put a bigsby b70 on my epi les paul.

You can't get the bushing holes to match unless you also buy an adaptor.
this is a part that the bigsby screws into, then it reaches to the
stop tail bushing holes and screws into them.. voila. no drilling.

there's another trem that stew mac has which attaches to the stop tail with no modifications. That's the les trem.

I've never used one.

My epi has no tuning problems. added locking tuners and a schaller roller bridge.

It looks pretty good, I think.

And it works perfectly.

I made pieces to cover the bushing holes out of aluminum, matches the bigsby well. the holes that aren't covered are not full round holes.. less than half on the low e side, and just a pencil size on the high e side.
I used black guard material for the tiny hole that was showing, as the aluminum was very hard to work with at that scale.
It's hidden by the bar, anyway.

I like my way, so far, of all I've seen. The adaptors are kinda klunky looking compared to two small pieces to cover those holes.
It's a permanent fix so I didn't care about drilling. Who'd want to take it off?
No sustain or tone loss that I can hear and I play this particular guitar a lot.

TWANG

[elenore19]

Originally Posted by Light

What do you want to do with it?

Also, why no holes in your guitar? If it's valuable enough for it to matter, you shouldn't be doing anything like this to begin with. If it's a modern guitar, it really doesn't matter. New guitars will never be collectors items - there are too many of them out there. Frankly, either way, I'm betting you are going to be dissatisfied. They will both cause significant tuning issues if you use them for in any significant way, and the Bigsby will be worse if it isn't screwed solidly to the guitar. That other one probably just won't work, period.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

I don't want to drill holes in my guitar because if I don't enjoy the tremelo then I want to be able to get my guitar back to it's original state without any holes. Also, I just don't want to risk hurting my guitar.
I want to have the ability to bend the pitch of my notes up and down. I guess that's basically it. Sound pretty lame, yeah, but I'm still interested in it. As far as the tuning issues...someone else replied saying they don't have any tuning issues, so. I've seen many people use the les trem and it works just fine, so I'm not sure I'll believe you when you say it probably won't work. But thanks for the input either way, I'll still take into consideration what you say.

Originally Posted by Unsprung

My first question is, what make/model of guitar? I only ask this because I'm assuming it already has a Tune-O-Matic bridge and stop tail piece, which will make converting to either vibrato system less of a headache, starting out. Although I voted for Bigsby, as I'll be putting a B5 on both my Les Paul Special and Les Paul Melody Maker, if you don't want to add holes to your guitar body, the Les Trem will be the better option. I've seen the Les Trem offered as an option on Reverend guitars that have a stop tail piece. A plus for the Les Trem is, it will be much easier to take the guitar back to original than with a Bigsby, as there are no extra holes created with the Les Trem conversion.

Matt

Reverend buckshot. Almost brand new, about a month old. Not even. Yes, it has the Tune-O-Matic bridge and stop tail piece. I saw that the les trem used to be offered on Reverend guitars, but not anymore according to their website. So I figured I'd add it myself. That is a big plus, as far as returning my guitar to its original state.

Originally Posted by TWANGthang

I put a bigsby b70 on my epi les paul.

You can't get the bushing holes to match unless you also buy an adaptor.
this is a part that the bigsby screws into, then it reaches to the
stop tail bushing holes and screws into them.. voila. no drilling.

there's another trem that stew mac has which attaches to the stop tail with no modifications. That's the les trem.

I've never used one.

My epi has no tuning problems. added locking tuners and a schaller roller bridge.

It looks pretty good, I think.

And it works perfectly.

I made pieces to cover the bushing holes out of aluminum, matches the bigsby well. the holes that aren't covered are not full round holes.. less than half on the low e side, and just a pencil size on the high e side.
I used black guard material for the tiny hole that was showing, as the aluminum was very hard to work with at that scale.
It's hidden by the bar, anyway.

I like my way, so far, of all I've seen. The adaptors are kinda klunky looking compared to two small pieces to cover those holes.
It's a permanent fix so I didn't care about drilling. Who'd want to take it off?
No sustain or tone loss that I can hear and I play this particular guitar a lot.

TWANG

Good to know about the no tuning issues and it sounding great. I think that I will either go with the Les trem or the B5 bigsby though, just for the sake of me really not feeling comfortable enough to drill holes in my guitar.
Thanks for the input though, good to know.


-Elliot

[Gear_Junky]

el, for your reverend (and considering the no-drill policy) you should try the les trem. at least it's 100% undo-able.

you should know that as far as tuning stability, depending on how well the nut slots are made you might need some work there (or a new nut from delrine also known as "slip stone"). also a roller bridge is pretty much in order, because when you use a vibrato the strings can catch on the edges there, especially wound strings. but you can do that IF you are going out of tune.

with light vibrato use you might be ok.

you should know too that neither bigsby nor les trem will get you into floyd rose or strat "tremolo" dive-bomb territory, they just don't have the range.

[Light]

One person says no problem, vs. the thousands or more over the years who have said that Bigsby's are a big PITA. Listen to whomever you wish.

By the way, if you really want the best possible bridge for any of those PITA trems (Bigsby's, Jaguar/Jazzmaster, etc.), I've got a friend who has come up with the best one I've seen. He's put them on guitars for the guys from Wilco, Sonic Youth, and a bunch of others. THE MASTERY BRIDGE. It's a first rate piece of kit. (And no, I have no financial stake in these things.)


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Corndog]

I have constant tuning problems with my Bigsby but they are a necessary evil in 'billy music.

...and BTW it's a vibrato not a tremolo.

[elenore19]

Originally Posted by Gear_Junky

el, for your reverend (and considering the no-drill policy) you should try the les trem. at least it's 100% undo-able.

you should know that as far as tuning stability, depending on how well the nut slots are made you might need some work there (or a new nut from delrine also known as "slip stone"). also a roller bridge is pretty much in order, because when you use a vibrato the strings can catch on the edges there, especially wound strings. but you can do that IF you are going out of tune.

with light vibrato use you might be ok.

you should know too that neither bigsby nor les trem will get you into floyd rose or strat "tremolo" dive-bomb territory, they just don't have the range.

Yeah, I pretty much figured that. I'll definitely go into a store sometime and just try out other guitars with at least a bigsby on it just to see what I think and if it's worth it or not. Just to make sure.

Originally Posted by Light

One person says no problem, vs. the thousands or more over the years who have said that Bigsby's are a big PITA. Listen to whomever you wish.

By the way, if you really want the best possible bridge for any of those PITA trems (Bigsby's, Jaguar/Jazzmaster, etc.), I've got a friend who has come up with the best one I've seen. He's put them on guitars for the guys from Wilco, Sonic Youth, and a bunch of others. THE MASTERY BRIDGE. It's a first rate piece of kit. (And no, I have no financial stake in these things.)


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Alright, good to know. So tuning issues will be relevant then. That bridge looks pretty intense. I'll consider it.

Originally Posted by Corndog

I have constant tuning problems with my Bigsby but they are a necessary evil in 'billy music.

...and BTW it's a vibrato not a tremolo.

Thanks for the information Learn something new everyday.

[TWANGthang]

I have about twenty guitars here.
And I build them for myself and others.
And my bigsby wont go out of tune unless I'm really working it hard.
which one has to expect with any whammy as that's in the strings.

If it's set up right, it should come back in tune.
No doubt, lots of people don't set them up very well.

I've never put one on a tele so far.

TWANG

[elenore19]

Originally Posted by TWANGthang

I have about twenty guitars here.
And I build them for myself and others.
And my bigsby wont go out of tune unless I'm really working it hard.
which one has to expect with any whammy as that's in the strings.

If it's set up right, it should come back in tune.
No doubt, lots of people don't set them up very well.

I've never put one on a tele so far.

TWANG

Alright, good to know. Thanks!