Which Three Out Of Four Fender Amps To Keep?

[stevieb]

I've been on a smaller-is-better quest for a year or two, seems to be the way for me to go. Fender Twin then Pro then Deluxe... and have been lusting after a Princeton (all reverb models) but decided the Champ is a bit noisy and not the best cost-benefit wise, and anyway I have a 5-watt amp with tremolo already.

So, now I own a 77 Pro (70 6L6 watts), a 77 Deluxe(22 6V6 watts), a re-issue Hot Rod Deluxe (40 6L6 watts), and have found a Silverface Princeton Reverb for sale (12-15 6v6 watts) that the seller has expressed interest in a possible trade for either th Pro or the Deluxe- I haven't mentioned the HR Deluxe to him yet, but let's assume he would be interested in it, too.

I rarely if ever need the 70 watts of the Pro. Heck, even the 40 of the HR Deluxe will probably never be needed. So, which of the four amps might be the one I should let go?

Which of my three amps would be the best trade (from my perspective) for the Princeton? He is asking under $700 for it, I have not found another under $1000 (but have not looked since the economic downturn, and I have noticed prices of vintage amps seem to have fallen). Assuming he decides he is only interested in ONE of my amps, approximately how much additional cash might be appropriate to change hands, and which way?

Finer points of the amps:
Pro was professionally rebuilt in Nashville a few years ago, seems to now be a gigging musician's dream- vintage tone and rock-solid reliability;
Deluxe was "blackfaced" a while back, I am told;
HR Deluxe has all new Ruby tubes but otherwise is stock;
Don't know much about the Princeton yet...

Thanks. Quick, from-the-hip responses are preferred this time, rather than well-thought-through ones, as he is ready to move on this.

[Gear_Junky]

well, i can't speak for all those amps, but we recently borrowed a Hot Rod Deluxe to play a lodge-like building with about 80 guests in the audience.

The amp stayed on about 2 the whole time (with drums and bass). Turning it to 3 caused concerns that the building might collapse

We've also used it in an outdoor gig - similar experience - too much amp.

So I don't know how it would fit in "smaller is better" paradigm.

[starbuck26]

It struck me as obvious that you should ditch the HR Deluxe Re-Issue. Can't think of a more common amp.

But, of course, IMHO. YMMV. ETC.

[Supercreep]

Originally Posted by starbuck26

It struck me as obvious that you should ditch the HR Deluxe Re-Issue. Can't think of a more common amp.

But, of course, IMHO. YMMV. ETC.

................+1

[buckkillr8]

I'll second the HR. But anyone of those amps could go for a Princeton!! Love mine.

[Outlaws]

There is no answer. Its all about which amp sounds best. In the wattage range you are dealing with, it is immaterial if one amp is 40 watts or 60 watts or just 22 watts. The volume isn't gonna change (unless the speaker efficiency is different), its only about headroom....which comes right back to which sounds better?

[stevieb]

Well, Outlasws, with a post like that, why did you even bother? Plus, you are quite wrong about the wattage/volume issue (and you completly left out the Princeton's 12 watts in your range)- a 70-watt amp driving two 12's is certainly going to produce more volume than a 22-watt amp driving one 12, and it will be even louder compared to a 12-watt amp driving a 10.

Everyone else, thanks for the consensus. I will try to get him to go for the HR Deluxe, then the Pro. I think I will take the Deluxe off the table.

Keep 'em coming- have not made the deal yet.

[pohaku]

I'm inclined to agree with most of the previous posters. Keep the silver faces and ditch the HR Deluxe.

[Outlaws]

Originally Posted by stevieb

Well, Outlasws, with a post like that, why did you even bother? Plus, you are quite wrong about the wattage/volume issue (and you completly left out the Princeton's 12 watts in your range)- a 70-watt amp driving two 12's is certainly going to produce more volume than a 22-watt amp driving one 12, and it will be even louder compared to a 12-watt amp driving a 10.

Everyone else, thanks for the consensus. I will try to get him to go for the HR Deluxe, then the Pro. I think I will take the Deluxe off the table.

Keep 'em coming- have not made the deal yet.

And with knowledge like that, why did you even ask?

I am not wrong about the wattage/volume issue. Plug those 2 12's into your Deluxe. I bet its just as loud as the Pro.

[stevieb]

Originally Posted by Outlaws

And with knowledge like that, why did you even ask?

I am not wrong about the wattage/volume issue. Plug those 2 12's into your Deluxe. I bet its just as loud as the Pro.

Oh, yeah, SURE it is. I'm sure if I plugged the two 12's into my little 5 watt Monkey-Wards Model 6000, it would be as loud as the 125-watt Twin Reverb I had... Or, I could just use the little 5-watter instead of my 1500-wat QSC PA power amp...

When did we leave the door open for idiots to just wander in?

[Outlaws]

Originally Posted by stevieb

Oh, yeah, SURE it is. I'm sure if I plugged the two 12's into my little 5 watt Monkey-Wards Model 6000, it would be as loud as the 125-watt Twin Reverb I had... Or, I could just use the little 5-watter instead of my 1500-wat QSC PA power amp...

That, along with previous posts, prove you know nothing of what you speak in terms of wattage vs volume. 5 vs 125 is not the same as 22 vs 70.

Do some research, or just try it, unless you are scared of the truth.

I rest my case.

[Ed Dixon]

I have two older Princeton 12 W models, and they are nice little amps. I put a 12" EV Speaker in one, and that really helped the sound.

Like most others, lose the HR model.

Ed

[ocnor]

Originally Posted by stevieb

Oh, yeah, SURE it is. I'm sure if I plugged the two 12's into my little 5 watt Monkey-Wards Model 6000, it would be as loud as the 125-watt Twin Reverb I had... Or, I could just use the little 5-watter instead of my 1500-wat QSC PA power amp...

When did we leave the door open for idiots to just wander in?

If you compare the maximum volume of a 50-watt amplifier with a 100-watt amplifier the difference is only 3 dB, barely greater than the ability of the human ear to hear the difference. It would take an amplifier with 10 times more power (500 watts!) to be perceived as being twice as loud (a +10 dB increase).

Outlaws is exactly right and I believe that you owe him an apology for calling him an idiot.

[stevieb]

Originally Posted by ocnor

If you compare the maximum volume of a 50-watt amplifier with a 100-watt amplifier the difference is only 3 dB, barely greater than the ability of the human ear to hear the difference. It would take an amplifier with 10 times more power (500 watts!) to be perceived as being twice as loud (a +10 dB increase).

Outlaws is exactly right and I believe that you owe him an apology for calling him an idiot.

BARELY is still within the range of discernment, so I rest my case.

And I didn't call anyone specifically an idiot, just wondered out loud who left the door open. But, hey, if the shoe fits, wear it. Oh, what the hell, Okay, I am sorry. Still, Outlaw's first post added NOTHING to the topic at hand, and his subsequent ones have not, either. If you want to argue about wattage vs. power, Outlaw, get your own damn thread and leave mine the fuck alone. Really, sorry to get so pissy about this, but really, you are not helping.

Now, can we get back to the original topic?

Guy with the Princeton says he is not interested in the Pro or the HR Deluxe- darn. Those two are far less desirable to me than the Deluxe. He did say he has some interest in an Ampeg VT40 I offered- I think that one may be the only amp we can agree on. Should have never even mentioned the Deluxe to him, I guess.

And on a related topic, everyone (even you, Outlaw, if you can agree to stay on topic) please see my upcoming post "Pro Reverb Vs. Hot Rod Deluxe."