Manager Schmanager

[starbuck26]

Hey fellas,

We played a pretty good show last night. After the show was over, while I was frantically ripping gear off the stage (I also tore open my finger during the set, and so was wiping blood all over my holiday sweater, distracted as hell), some guy came over and congratulated us.

Then he said: "I want to manage your band."

I was kind of taken aback, and still way distracted. I told him to email me and we'll talk. He said he would email me tonight.

I've already decided that my answer is pretty much "No," because I kind of felt that we can do pretty much what he can, but it begs the question.

What does a good manager do? What kinds of questions should I ask them to get a sense of what they can do for us?

My tentative list (off the top of my head):

1) booking shows — should have contacts in the local scene and elsewhere. especially festival shows.
2) managing correspondence, soliciting reviews in the press, etc.
3) interface with clubs
4) mix the band when possible
5) make us cookies.
6) manage the website

and how are they paid? I imagine it's 10-20% off the dough they bring in..

I'm just curious. I enjoy doing all of the managerial work for my band. I find I make a lot of friends that way.

Thoughts?

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by starbuck26

Hey fellas,

We played a pretty good show last night. After the show was over, while I was frantically ripping gear off the stage (I also tore open my finger during the set, and so was wiping blood all over my holiday sweater, distracted as hell), some guy came over and congratulated us.

Then he said: "I want to manage your band."

I was kind of taken aback, and still way distracted. I told him to email me and we'll talk. He said he would email me tonight.

I've already decided that my answer is pretty much "No," because I kind of felt that we can do pretty much what he can, but it begs the question.

What does a good manager do? What kinds of questions should I ask them to get a sense of what they can do for us?

My tentative list (off the top of my head):

1) booking shows — should have contacts in the local scene and elsewhere. especially festival shows.
2) managing correspondence, soliciting reviews in the press, etc.
3) interface with clubs
4) mix the band when possible
5) make us cookies.
6) manage the website

and how are they paid? I imagine it's 10-20% off the dough they bring in..

I'm just curious. I enjoy doing all of the managerial work for my band. I find I make a lot of friends that way.

Thoughts?

If you are enjoying it, and your results are good enough for you and the rest of the band, and you have the time, then you don't need a manager, IMO. OTOH, if the guy who approached you is well connected and can open doors for you that you either don't know about or can't access, then give him a shot and pay him a percentage of what his efforts produce. Don't sign any sort of exclusivity deal with him until he's proved he's worth it.

I hate doing that stuff.

[Zaphod B]

I've never had a manager, but for a time I did have a very good booking agent.

We relied on our agent to get us steady work in clubs in the region. Almost all these clubs booked bands through agencies so it was impossible to get into them otherwise. He would take care of all the booking arrangements but the rest was up to us. I have never felt a need to have any more handling than that. We paid him a certain percentage of every gig, off the top. I think it was 15%. Well worth it because we had to beg for time off.

But if you like taking care of this and all the other stuff yourself, why pay someone else to do it?

[starbuck26]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

But if you like taking care of this and all the other stuff yourself, why pay someone else to do it?

I'm just curious. I do enjoy it, but wonder if there's stuff I can't/won't be able to do.

Maybe I can offer him a similar arrangement to see where it goes. Just say, book us shows and take 15%. That seems fairly harmless. We could always say no.

[gecko zzed]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

But if you like taking care of this and all the other stuff yourself, why pay someone else to do it?

This sounds like reasonable advice.

But I'll add another thought to the mixture.

Unsurprisingly, many bands are made up of artistic, creative people, and many artistic, creative people are not that interested in the administrative side of running a band. When that part is ignored, or not done well, there can be unpleasant consequences.

Sometimes there is someone in the band who is willing and has the capability to take on that role, so that side of things is taken care of. But if you kind of muddle along, yet have ambitions for greater things, then securing a trusted business partner is a wise move.

[Zaphod B]

In the past, in various bands, we've had people approach us wanting to be our manager.

In almost every case these were people who had no actual experience managing talent, but were big bullshitters who wanted to jump on someone else's gravy train.

If I were thinking of wanting a manager I'd want someone with a proven track record.

[starbuck26]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

If I were thinking of wanting a manager I'd want someone with a proven track record.

My thinking exactly. What questions should I ask him to give us an idea of his track record? A list of bands he's managed before? A list of clubs he has contacts with? Things like that?

I'm tempted to ask him for a CV. Not that I want to be a dick, but I feel like anyone worth his salt would be able to provide one.

[starbuck26]

Originally Posted by gecko zzed

Sometimes there is someone in the band who is willing and has the capability to take on that role, so that side of things is taken care of. But if you kind of muddle along, yet have ambitions for greater things, then securing a trusted business partner is a wise move.

I think that's good advice. We've been playing for about two years, and in the last four months or so things have started to move. Lots more people coming to shows, etc. In the past I knew everyone in the audience, because they were the old faithfuls. In the past few shows I start looking around and realize I don't know half the people that are coming.

We've secured a solid producer for a full-length, and will be cutting that in April or May. I think until that time we'll just do what we've been doing. Once we cut that one and start to really make a go of it, it will be time to look for a serious manager, but preferably someone from a reputable agency who can do more than send emails to clubs and booking shows for door money.

The real thing we're lacking is press contacts. That's the one piece of the puzzle I haven't been able to crack so far. It's not so big of a deal, but will become a big deal when we've got a full length out. Then it's do or die, I imagine.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by starbuck26

My thinking exactly. What questions should I ask him to give us an idea of his track record? A list of bands he's managed before? A list of clubs he has contacts with? Things like that?

I'm tempted to ask him for a CV. Not that I want to be a dick, but I feel like anyone worth his salt would be able to provide one.

Yes, that would be reasonable. Ask him for a business card (in person, no prior warning).

Client list and contact information. Venues he has booked with.

[starbuck26]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

Yes, that would be reasonable. Ask him for a business card (in person, no prior warning).

Should have thought of that. I probably would have if my finger wasn't dripping blood all over the place.

I imagine the response would have been: "Oh, actually I just ran out."

[gecko zzed]

Originally Posted by starbuck26

The real thing we're lacking is press contacts. That's the one piece of the puzzle I haven't been able to crack so far.

In a band it is pretty obvious that people play particular parts (vocals, guitars, etc) because they have the talent, skill and aptitude for those parts.

It's not always so obvious that the marketing side of the work is itself a specialised talent. It is really handy if you can find someone (inside or outside the band) with that entreprenurial flair and who can find opportunities, networks and contacts.

[mikeh]

At an earlier point in my musical travels I worked with 2 bands that had "managers" One manager was rather effective - the other was not.

Traditionally, a manager does a few key things (possibly more depending on the needs of the band, etc.) in order of inportance:

1. Advance the success of the band - which primarily should be trying to arrange for a recording contract/record deal. This also may include obtaining other professional services (entertainment attorney, PR people, etc.). Often the manager will guide the image of the band and try to direct the band in a direction that leads to maximum sucess. This could include selecting the right gigs to gradually build to tours in support of national acts, etc.

2. Secure bookings for the band. While some managers are good at this and have the connections - many would simply try to coordinate with local booking agents and/or regional bookers. But - the manager should make sure the venues and/or national acts the band may open for are "right" for the bands image/goals

3. Manage the day to day business dealings - this can include anything from collecting pay at the gig (or in advance of the gig), acting as a tour manager, paying all the bills etc. In some bands the manager can in essence be a baby sitter - and some bands simply don't need that level of oversight.

As indicated, most people who approach a band and ask to manager them probably don't have the clout or connections to actually do any good (good managers have plenty of clients and don't have to hang in bars looking for someone to manage).

If your band is seeking a recording contract or label support - or is hoping to become a national act - and has something special to offer...................maybe a manager could help. If your band is basically a local weekend or 3 nights a week cover band - you probably don't need a manager.....but a good booking agent may be helpful.

My attitude has always been if you're a local or even regional band and you have band member with half a brain - or better yet more than one member willing to share some of the adminiistrative work (manage the fan mailing list, keep the website up and running, booking the gigs, etc) - then you really don't need a manager.

Most legit managers get between 10% and 20% of the band income........but, those managers should also be willing to help finance the band (lease the tour bus, provide some tour support, pay for recording sessions, etc.).

[pohaku]

Ask for a CV. Get references. Check the references. Get a criminal background check. Really. You want someone with experience and connections, not a wannabe. You want someone trustworthy - expecially if they will be handling any of your money.

[starbuck26]

[QUOTE=pohaku;3065006]Get a criminal background check. Really. /QUOTE]

That is a fucking good idea. A really fucking good idea.

[Fusioninspace]

Originally Posted by starbuck26

snip snip...

The real thing we're lacking is press contacts. That's the one piece of the puzzle I haven't been able to crack so far. It's not so big of a deal, but will become a big deal when we've got a full length out. Then it's do or die, I imagine.

My wife and I had a software business years ago. The "free" press was the best thing that ever happened to us. Do some searches on "Press Kits" and you'll get the idea.

Basically, media has to fill up the airwaves/cable/web/paper with 24/7 of "stuff". Many media operations are extremely open to cold calls and if you can present yourself as being something that someone out there want's to hear about, then they'll get hold of you.... and it's free (except for the cost of the Press Kit).

If you're not a natural at this stuff, you'll have to learn how to be a good interview, be open minded, be photogenic, and BE ON TIME. Let them know when you are performing, provide good quality demos/recordings, etc.

As they say: 10% inspiration, 90% perspiration.

[jasonbmerrill]

Originally Posted by starbuck26

I'm tempted to ask him for a CV. Not that I want to be a dick,

how would this possibly make you a dick?!?!

this would be a necessity imo

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by jasonbmerrill

how would this possibly make you a dick?!?!

this would be a necessity imo

Well, not wanting to look like an idiot, I held off as long as I could, but what's a CV? Control Voltage? Curriculum Vitae? Custom Van? ;^)

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by ggunn

Well, not wanting to look like an idiot, I held off as long as I could, but what's a CV? Control Voltage? Curriculum Vitae? Custom Van? ;^)

Curriculum vitae, as in resume.

[starbuck26]

Originally Posted by jasonbmerrill

how would this possibly make you a dick?!?!

this would be a necessity imo

I dunno... I just said that because I don't think rock and roll should need a resume.

But I will ask. I shudder to think how many misspellings I'll find.

[pohaku]

Originally Posted by starbuck26

I dunno... I just said that because I don't think rock and roll should need a resume.

But I will ask. I shudder to think how many misspellings I'll find.

Like it or not, if you are playing out or you are recording, rock & roll is a business. While it may seem unhip to treat it as such, you will likely be better off down the road if you observe standard business practices. Fewer headaches later.

[fraserhutch]

Better make sure any manager you consider has a certification in first aid.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

Curriculum vitae, as in resume.

Um, OK, but I've never heard a resumé called that except in academia.

[TWANGthang]

some of the dumbest bastards I ever met playing have been
booking agents.

and mean, idiotic.
An agent who asked me if my Rockabilly band did any Michael Jackson.
That's what they want, sez he.

And agents who simply book you into the wrong type of club because they really have no clue to start with, and only want the commission anyway, abound.

And managers.. lord. Don't get me started. Most of the ones I've run into had
no musical knowledge at all. Had no idea what their requirements would cost in time or money.
But never had any time or money themselves.

You have to be very careful with both.. and you have to make clear to them that it's YOUR band and their job is to do what you need done. Not the other
way around.

It's like club owners.. they may know what thier club needs. or they may simply be telling you what they personally like, despite what the customer wants or will support.

And the studios aren't much different.. I knew a band that had a really hot hot country rock sound going for them.. great approach, great players, good onstage..
zing.. they get a little interest and the next thing you know they have to change over to pop tunes. and I'm talking like paul anka tunes he couldn't sell to anyone else.. my god that album sucked so bad you'd never know it was the same band.

Just be careful, and be in control.
Or, sell out to the highest bidder..

TWANG

[chazba]

Could be the best or worst thing you could do. Get references ...who else has he managed?
A track record is vital in this biz. It's all about networking and connections. If he checks out, commit for a limited time...say 3 months...that will give the guy enough time to either get things moving in a big way or...not. If he's hooked up and motivated, you will see results in a few days. If he can't help you guys in 3 months...either the guy is a flake or your band sux big time. Either way you will know that it's time for a change.


chazba

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by ggunn

Um, OK, but I've never heard a resumé called that except in academia.

Me either, but I think the point is the same - a list of qualifications.