Attention moderators! Serious issue in need of attention!

[mshilarious]

OK, I like to kid. I kid, I kid. But there is an issue regarding sales of commercial products on the Microphone board, and you need to create a policy or affirm the sorta status quo existing one.

History:

Dragon generally never allowed dealers of commercial products to promote their products anywhere on this BBS. The Free Ads board contains a prohibition against dealer posts, which has been strictly enforced by the community if not always Dragon. I mean Dragon's a nice guy and all, but he'd clean up obvious spam (cell phone ads, etc.) and not do much else. So we'd run 'em off with pitchforks and torches instead!

One time Dragon did send a very clear message regarding dealer posts when he banned guru extraordinaire Harvey Gerst for a few days. Harvey sells an inexpensive line of headphones for not too much profit, and they are loved by many. Harvey has also arguably made the best and most extensive contributions to this BBS. However, to be completely fair, he got banned for posting sales information about his products. Afterwards, Harvey said he at least understood why Dragon did that, and Harvey had never promoted his products in that manner henceforth. Harvey has a lot of class!

Fast forward to 2006 or so. Chance Pataki organized a group buy of Chinese microphones, like many group buys, this involved no profit to Chance. As such, Chance enjoyed free rein to promote his group buy. Personally, I thought it should have been on the Free Ads board, but that is a minor quibble, and otherwise it doesn't bother me much. That thread has gone on for two years and three group buys now, it's quite large and easy to find.

The latest group buy has raised some issues, because there are now ancillary products being offered to the group buy customers for profit. These include repair kits and transformer and circuit upgrades. It is not always clear whether or not these products do involve profit, because unlike the group buy purchases themselves, the cost is not being disclosed to potential customers. This activity is also not confined to Free Ads, but is mainly occurring on the Microphone board on the group buy thread.

There's more, of course. Here's an unrelated post with a gray area sort of issue:

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=274863

Michael Joly is a commercial provider of microphone modifications. Most of that post is generally useful technical information, but the bottom paragraph to me reads like a sales pitch.

As a site supporter and advertiser on this BBS, naturally I feel somewhat amiss that competitors may advertise their wares in this manner for free. In the first couple of months of my business, I did participate in product discussions until I realized that it was a really poisonous thing to do to the board, and ultimately that would not be in anyone's long term interest, mine included. From that point, I have tried very hard not to participate in product discussions at all, but I am finding that difficult in light of the above activity.

Well, I suppose my feelings are clear enough, but it would be really nice to have an official policy on this issue and a ruling on the current goings-on. It wouldn't be a terrible idea to have a Retail board where dealers are allowed to post, perhaps in exchange for a financial arrangement however you see fit. That's just one dealer's opinion though.

Regards,

Jon O'Neil
Naiant Studio

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Horace_Koch

Sir, the management has yet to decide upon moderation. Until such time as they have concluded their solution, you sir, are on your own.

"D" and "uh". That is why I am exhorting them to get off their duffs. If the board turns into a free-for-all, they stand to lose advertising revenue.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by Horace_Koch

Sir, the management has yet to decide upon moderation. Until such time as they have concluded their solution, you sir, are on your own.

This phrasing is beyond awkward. You're trying too hard. Should've picked something other than an uppity British butler for your little persona. You just can't cut the mustard...

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

You just can't cut the mustard...

Uppity British Butlers excel at musard-cutting though.

[XLR]

All kidding aside, I agree that this is an important issue. Mention of commercial offers by dealers, manufacturers and those offering professional services should occur only in paid advertising. Good products and services get promoted in thread discussions by satisfied customers, and that's how it should be. I appreciate mshilarious' black-and-white approach to this re his own products.



The "Free Ads" section might be a little grey in this regard, but that's not a big deal to me (might be to someone else, dunno) as it's limited to a narrow area of the forum.

[Gidge]

I agree with mshilarious 100%..

[Gidge]

also, was the group buy really non-profit for Chance? if you say so, Ill believe it but seems a pretty dumb thing to do..that would be countless hours given away..

of course, those in the Modification business must appreciate it..

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Gidge

also, was the group buy really non-profit for Chance? if you say so, Ill believe it but seems a pretty dumb thing to do..that would be countless hours given away..

Supposed to be

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by Horace_Koch

Sir, I implore you, please find a life. There is no need to continue following me around like a lost puppy. If attention is what you seek, then by all means, please seek it elsewhere. I am not now, nor have I ever shown an interest in you.

But it seems so obvious that the spotlight is exactly what you crave--I'm simply obliging, that's all.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by Horace_Koch

Sir, I have left this in the hands of Management. If you are not mature enough to stop your harrasment, then hopefully they can encourage you.

Say Horsey ol' boy, I posed a serious question for you earlier, and as I'm sure you simply overlooked it, I thought I'd point it out to you. Perhaps you can enlighten us all with your answer:

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showpos...6&postcount=12

[muttley600]

Yeh, come on Horace me' ole' mucker lets clear the air here. Are you truly one of us well bred and suitably educated well spoken fortunates or a foul mouth piece of shit. Which is it?

EDIT.He's gone thank heavens for that..

[true-eurt]

Originally Posted by Horace_Koch

Sir, I have left this in the hands of Management. If you are not mature enough to stop your harrasment, then hopefully they can encourage you.

Well then, you may as well get to reporting me to the management too Mr Koch sir!...cause I'm like a little bratty kid and I'm gonna neg-rep you every chance I get! Have a lovely day...

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by true-eurt

Well then, you may as well get to reporting me to the management too Mr Koch sir!...cause I'm like a little bratty kid and I'm gonna neg-rep you every chance I get! Have a lovely day...

I didn't bother negging him just a few reported posts and it seems to have done the trick. Why can't these alias's just dick about in the cave?

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by muttley600

I didn't bother negging him just a few reported posts and it seems to have done the trick. Why can't these alias's just dick about in the cave?

And I was looking forward to his 50th post so I could start pummeling his chiclets to red...

[true-eurt]

Originally Posted by muttley600

I didn't bother negging him just a few reported posts and it seems to have done the trick. Why can't these alias's just dick about in the cave?

That's right...the least he could've done, was show some leg like Daisy Duke did!!

[XLR]

Sorry. OT.

Post moved to the Cave.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=275210

[mshilarious]

Wait, so they banned and deleted Horace? What about the actual issue here

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

Wait, so they banned and deleted Horace? What about the actual issue here

Sorry--we hijacked your thread. Let this serve as a bump and a reiteration of the original post. And I agree with it. The first and easiest thing to do is move the Group Buy thread to the classifieds. Then I agree that we could be well served by an area for members with commercial ventures to post. (Though that would require some policing to avoid outright spam).

Again, sorry for the hijack. Back to the original query...

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

Wait, so they banned and deleted Horace? What about the actual issue here

Goes without saying really. If I feel a post or thread breaks the rules I'd report it. If nothing is done then you'd have to judge whether you want to participate in a bbs that allows that.

In principle I'm in a agreement with you. I deliberately maintain a certain anonymous presence as far as my identity is concerned here for several reasons. One is because I'm not here to find work.

I also rarely contribute to the review style threads or the what's the best x for y threads. Gear is such a subjective thing. I would challenge anyone to discredit any of the info I post that is content or fact specific in relation to my expertise. For me thats the way it should be. If the Guitar and bass forum was full of guys flogging their gear or trying to make a buck you wouldn't see me for dust. I have to put up with that crap in my working life.

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

Sorry--we hijacked your thread. Let this serve as a bump and a reiteration of the original post. And I agree with it. The first and easiest thing to do is move the Group Buy thread to the classifieds. Then I agree that we could be well served by an area for members with commercial ventures to post. (Though that would require some policing to avoid outright spam).

Again, sorry for the hijack. Back to the original query...

I can honestly say I have never made a cent from anyone here but if I had I would rely on them to provide the recommendation. One such endorsement is worth a thousand self posted adds in a commercial board. Self praise is no praise, as such I wouldn't like to see a board for active members to promote their stuff. The web is already full of that and most of it meaningless.

If you or Zaphod or Telepaul or [add user here] wants to say hey his work, service, product is top drawer thats OK. For me or Msh to say that about ourselves maybe not so..

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by muttley600

I also rarely contribute to the review style threads or the what's the best x for y threads. Gear is such a subjective thing. I would challenge anyone to discredit any of the info I post that is content or fact specific in relation to my expertise. For me thats the way it should be. If the Guitar and bass forum was full of guys flogging their gear or trying to make a buck you wouldn't see me for dust. I have to put up with that crap in my working life.

That's a good policy. I try to limit myself to technical posts, but often my integrity gets questioned anyway. As an analogy, it's as if I were a guitar builder, and I only did gits with underwound humbuckers (which is what I would do). I wouldn't sell many, which is OK with me, but then if I ever posted anything about how pickups work, no matter how neutral, I would be rejected.

It's lonely at the top

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

That's a good policy. I try to limit myself to technical posts, but often my integrity gets questioned anyway. As an analogy, it's as if I were a guitar builder, and I only did gits with underwound humbuckers (which is what I would do). I wouldn't sell many, which is OK with me, but then if I ever posted anything about how pickups work, no matter how neutral, I would be rejected.

It's lonely at the top

I don't think you would, I'd be happy to talk the subject anytime.. Don't get me wrong I've had some run ins with plenty of folks in the guitar and bass forum thats because I'm confident that what I know is credible and the years I've spent acquiring that knowledge has supported the science and facts behind it. Thats the way I argue it.

If someone tries to tell me it ain't so or puts forward a junk theory or analysis, I'll correct it. When they try and tell me I'm wrong I'll point them to places that prove otherwise. If they persist I pile on. BUT I always leave it at the back button. If the same person speaks to me in another thread I'll give them exactly the same courtesy as anyone else.

I guess what I'm saying is that the lack of commercial influence on these boards is a large part of it's appeal. I know what the real deal is as far as guitars and their construction and the acoustics etc. I also know how much bunkum there is out there about them. My role if you like is to present the reality of it all not the commercial spin. That's very hard if there is a commercial interest in the board or users. So I'm with you, keep the commercial posts out all together if we know our stuff we can help others without selling our wares, our product or service will stand on it's own regardless.

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

That's a good policy. I try to limit myself to technical posts, but often my integrity gets questioned anyway.

Oh and my integrity and validity gets questioned all the time as well. That really doesn't bother me because I know what I know and physics is physics. The rest is up for grabs. I've been insulted by experts before ask the guys in G&B..

It ain't no biggie. Everyone here soon gets a feel for the way people post and the extent of their knowledge. I know who I'd ask for info on specific subjects and you'd be in that bunch.

[m/Audiofanzine]

mshilarious,

I know this is probably a silly question but: are you aware that you've disabled receiving private messages?

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by m/Audiofanzine

mshilarious,

I know this is probably a silly question but: are you aware that you've disabled receiving private messages?

Yes, I disabled them long ago, because people kept using PMs rather than sending me an email regarding my products. That is annoying, because it prevents me from keeping a record of conversations, and it's also a rules violation--using the PM system to run a commercial business

My email address attached to my profile works fine though