Inserting an effect onto a specific channel? (Alesis 32 board)

[enemyofthesun]

Can anyone tell me how to patch an effect into a specific channel?


So far I have tried plugging in one of those insert Y cables into the INSERT of the respective channel and sending the other ends to the left (mono) in and outs of the fx processor.

All it does is mute the entire channel. Apparently I am not doing something right here. I know its not the fx unit cause Ive used it over the entire mix on one of sends and it (m-one) works fine.

Even if I did get this to work correctly I dont even see how I would control the amount of effect to be applied.

What im trying to do is to do an insert on the vocal track to apply a specific effect and still maintain the other two main fx on the sends active (reverb and comp) for the other instruments/tracks


Any help would be greatly appreciated..!!

[Blue Bear Sound]

Insert cables are TRS at one end with 2 TS cables at the other... The SEND signal is carried via the Tip and the RETURN is carried via the Ring...

If you're only getting one direction, it sounds like you're not really using an insert cable (ie, TRS tip at the Insert)...

Bruce

[Track Rat]

Try this. Take three regular mono patch cables. Plug one into an aux send on the mixer and the other end to the input of your processor(I'm assuming this is a reverb type of device). Take the other two cablles and run them from the output of the processor to either a stereo aux return on the mixer or two unused mixer channels (you can use 'em as effects returns). If the device you're trying to patch is a compressor or an outboard EQ, you'll want to use the channel insert. If that's the case try swapping the cable.

[skippy]

Yup- the Alesis insert is set up with send on the ring and return on the tip (like the A&H, Soundcraft, and a lot of other boards, to allow "1-click" insert stealing). If your insert cables are labeled for the Mackie approach (e.g., with the plug attached to tip labeled "send"), the labeling might misguide you. Try reversing the send and return plugs at your effect: bet that'll do it. Once you find which way works for your mixer, relabel the insert cables. This is a real pain for folks who work with different flavors of mixers in different venues: the ancient Panasonic board I work with at one live venue is a tip-send board, like the Mackies, and I always go tthrough mental gymnastics each time I set up there...

The M-one has a wet/dry knob right on the front panel (the % mix knob). Set it to midrange to start out with: you probably have it set for 100% effect (full wet) if you were using the unit on an aux. On an insert, this is how you control the amount of the effect.

Sonusman's right, though: sometimes it is easier to split the return, rather than try to insert it. If you don't have a loose aux bus available, you can always steal the direct out on the channel (maybe multing it with the tape in, if you're tracking that channel by itself), use that to drive the effect in, and then run the effect return to another completely separate channel- allowing you the flexibility to control the wet/dry mix with a fader, rather than a front panel knob, and also to EQ the effect separately: very useful at times. Your call, of course: just like coding in Perl, there's More Than One Way To Do It...

[enemyofthesun]

Originally posted by sonusman
A better way to go about this of course is to send just the vox to the effects unit via an Aux Send. Then return the effects unit to a mixer channel.
Ed

1) Please pardon my profuse ignorance but how do I route track 11 (vocal track) out of one of the aux sends?


2) Also if I uderstand properly. When I return from the fx unit I bring back one mono cable to a open track (say track 12) and use the fader and eq on that track 12 to adjust track 11...is this correct?

3)...OR can I go directly from the OUT on adat track 11 (vocal track) directly to the fx unit AND THEN back to track 12 on the board?? Would this work? Is it advisable?

[skippy]

You're doing this for mixdown, not for tracking, right? that's what it sounds like, anyway. My post above assumed that you were tracking.

Okay, I'll assume that you have ADAT track 11 coming in through tape monitor in 11. You have three pairs of aux busses available: aux3-4 as a pair, aux5-6 as a pair, and mon1-2 as a pair. So let's set up aux 3 for this, just as an exercise. Set up the board's channel 11 to take its input from tape monitor 11, not from mic/line in. Bring up aux3 on channel 11, routing your dry signal off onto aux3 of the aux3-4 pair. Patch the aux 3 output to the M-one's input. That's your dry send to the effect. Aux 3 is post-fader, so your fader moves will control not only the dry level, but also the level sent to the M-one.

Patch the M-one's output back to channel 12's line in.
Set up channel 12 to listen to mic/line, *not tape*. That's your wet effect.

Now, you have wet and dry available. What do you want to do with it? If you're mixing down to stereo, then you can route both channel 11 and channel 12 to the left/right main mix, pan and eq them as you like, and control the relative levels of dry and wet with the channel 11/12 faders. Fader 11 affects only the dry level and send to the effect, fader 12 affects only the wet level (return from the effect).

If, instead, you want to print this back to another track, you can do it one of two ways: route the wet (effected only) version back to its own ADAT track, so that you can mix wet and dry later. Or you can mix wet and dry right now and print *that* back to its own ADAT track, which would require you to use a submix.

To do the latter, you'd route both 11 and 12 to a sub (say group1-2), and pan them hard left to put all the signal on group 1. The balance between wet and dry will be controlled by the channel 11-12 faders, and the overall level will be controlled by the Group 1 fader. Patch the output of Group 1 to an ADAT track record input, and you're ready to print the wet+dry mix back to the ADAT. At that point, you could even choose to reuse track 11 for something else, if you like, since your new track will have the vox+effects you wanted.

That may be too much work for what you're trying to do. If you use the channel insert, you don't have to use up another channel: important if you already have 16 tape tracks recorded that you need to mix. Similarly, if you patch the ADAT's out 11 directly to the M-one's input, you can then patch the M-one's output right into the track 11 line in, and use the knob on the M-one's front panel to control wet/dry. You can accomplish the exact same thing by using the channel 11 insert: that just lets you do it without unpatching the ADAT from the tape monitor in at the board...

There's more than one way to do it. In fact, there are probably 20 ways to do it! And which one you choose depends on what you're doing: tracking, bouncing, mixdown.. and how easy it is to reroute signals within your rig.

I'd still bet that your initial problem was mislabeled send/return plugs on your insert cable. Try that first of all, so that you aren't trying to revamp your working style and get work done all at once! Swap 'em, and I'll bet a beer that things start working.

One word of warning, and an apology. I also just checked my Studio 32 manual, and discovered that I had it absolutely wrong: the 32's inserts send on the tip and return on the ring, Mackie-style, and *not* the way I described it above (A&H/Soundcraft style). Serves me right for working from memory, instead of looking it up. Aw, hell, I slept since I wired my patchbay- and I haven't had to deal with that since then: I just know my old insert y-cables are labeled backwards for the Panasonic.... Mea *maxima* culpa. Sorry if that added to your confusion.

Which means I'm going to have to redo the inserts in my patchbay when I get my Ghost. Wah.

[enemyofthesun]

Thank you all for the detailed assistance. I went ahead and went the easy route. I ran the out of the adat track to be processed directly into the m-one mono channel and back out to the #11 tape return o nthe board and mixed the effect amount with the knob on the m-one. This worked great

I an still going to attempt the routing out of one of the fx busses just for experience next chance I get.

Thanks again you folks are great!!