rewind drum motor wonky and low gain on Tascam 38?

[Sonarcade]

I have two concerns since I started work on the Tascam 38.

1) the rewind mechanism sometimes struggles to get the reel going after having recorded it. It does however start to accelerate once I give one of the reels a good nudge. I'm wondering how common this is and if this should raise some concern.

2) I'm using the preamps on my novation x-station to run my Rode NT1 microphone to the point of clipping and for some reason the playback volume seems oddly low. Could this just be the result of a bad combination or wiring or faultiness with either one of the units themselves?

Thanks.

[A Reel Person]

I'd suspect the tape, first and foremost. You should start with a known good new reel of high quality tape, hopefully not used tape. NOS tape can often be good, but varying by brand, type and batch, getting sticky tape is more of a risk with NOS.

Along with the suspicion of the tape having undue friction from SSS (sticky shed syndrome), is the inherent layers of oxide you'll get, which can diminish the record/playback response. The head must be as clean as can be, normally with nearly a mirror finish. Even oxide on the head you can't see can diminish response. You have to clean the heads a lot and start with new/fresh tape.

(These days), You gotta think of the tape as the culprit, most of all,... (or at least I do).

Beyond that, if perhaps your deck has been sitting with original factory setup all these years, I have one word: calibration.

The issue of needing a calibration is a foregone conclusion if the deck has gone any number of years without a tune up. A few (3-5) db of dropoff audio response would be normal. It's not the end of the world. It can usually be adjusted back to 0/0.

As well, if you check the manual, there's a section for reel torque. (After verifying tape!!!!!),..... you might logically assume the reel torque should be checked and adjusted. If the reel torque is off, you might have undue tension on the tape, which would exacerbate any tape wear, drag or cleaning issue. The reel torque affects tape tension in play mode and FF/RW response, directly.

Check the tape to 100% certainty with multiple reels. If you can do that and still have the problem, it's tech time. Some DIY'ers or any worthy tech could do the rec/repro and reel tension adjustment. HINT: You need the manual, a calibration tape and a spring scale to do both.

You're in LA, so with a good number of audio electronic fixit shops to choose from, you should be alright. TEAC Service 'bout 30 minutes away from you, too. Learning to do it yourself is a lot cheaper in the long run, and it's technical but maybe not brain science.

For DIY cal you have to invest in a few tools right off. I've seen the effects of calibration on my own well kept 38 that have me convinced of the efficacy of a proper calibration as related to these two issues. I've had both issues. Adjusted it myself. Was surprised at the improvement when tension was corrected and e'thing was setup right.

[IMO] most home-kept personal studio 38's would tend to have low or medium wear and maybe have never been calibrated since factory setup. Things have to be checked & set back in spec again. If you clean and cal them up, 38's'll usually perform and sound great for many years to come.

So sorry to go on at length. I'll shut up now. Tech DIY can be a learning experience.

[A Reel Person]

I don't want to check out without remembering to remind you to check that the reel tables (hubs) are screwed very securely to the reel motor shafts. Slippage could be occuring at that point if it's loosened a bit.

Yo Gabba Gabba!

[jpmorris]

Might it be a braking issue?

[Sonarcade]

thanks again reel person for your advice. I actually bought 3 used reels and hopefully the tape hasn't damaged the heads, because it seems as if you pretty much nailed it with suspecting SSS as I'm wont to agree with looking at the picture below. I tried all of them and it seems like my Tascam 38 has stopped recording completely although it was doing fine before. Are the heads irreversibly damaged or can they be repaired?



hopefully, the picture'll be enough to arrive at some conclusion about the current state of my Tascam 38. Also, I'm much more of a fan of DIY (or rather with the advice I get here, I suppose it would be more accurate to say DIT[ogether]) than to rely on a technician to do repairs for me, so any help in this context is more than welcome.

[trancedental]

Clean the all those heads with isopropyl alcohol immediately , you need the 90% + even 98% strong Alcohol if you can get it, try the chemist / pharmacy.

Use cotton cleaning swabs or 100% cotton makeup remover pads (lint free)

You will probably need to clean the heads at least 3 or 4 times & keep cleaning them until all the tape oxide dust comes off on the cotton!!!! And clean anywhere in the tape path apart from any rubber rollers (Don't clean rubber with this solution)

They look really dirty to me!

[trancedental]

Clean the all those heads with isopropyl alcohol immediately , you need the 90% + even 98% strong Alcohol if you can get it, try the chemist / pharmacy.

Use cotton cleaning swabs or 100% cotton makeup remover pads (lint free)

You will probably need to clean the heads at least 3 or 4 times & keep cleaning them until all the tape oxide dust comes off on the cotton!!!! And clean anywhere in the tape path apart from any rubber rollers (Don't clean rubber with this solution)

They look really dirty to me! Yuch!

[Sonarcade]

I used some cheap isopropyl alcohol on some napkins and elbow grease and got that off and once that happened, I started hearing my recordings again! I hope that rubbing against the heads as firmly as I did didn't lead to anything permanent. I feel that the Tascam 38 is built like a tank but still needs to be handled in as delicate of a manner as possible -- which is hard for a bull in a china shop like myself.

It's funny that now that sticky shed thread that's...ahem...stickied makes so much sense to me. I'm hoping for either a cool bulk pancake sale on ebay for NOS tape like the one you posted, trancedental, or find a way to minimize the shedding so I don't have to scrub away at those heads every pass.

[A Reel Person]

Man, you've got a bad case of it!

Snackmaster dehydrator from Walmart might be a good investment for you @ appx $40.

The downside of SSS is that if it's bad enough to stall the tape, the undue stress if let run long enough might burn out the reel motors,... in the worst cases is a possibility.

Also, the friction and associated heat, if run to excess, could actually physically burn out the head,... or so I've read maybe once or twice online.

These are the most serious issues that could develop from an unchecked case of SSS. Beware & snack-snack-Snackmaster away!

PS: Meaning,... you can't just continue to run this tape and ignore the problem. Baking, or actually heating & dehydrating the tape can restore it's smoothe running properties,... or so I've read. Do not use a conventional gas oven! Baking is a bit of a misnomer. I have yet to do the SSS/Snackmaster treatment myself, but will soon TBA.

[Herm]

I have done it and it stinks like shit. If you do it, do it in the basement or garage. And dont hang around it smells like something you dont want to inhale for a long time.
From the looks of your heads and tape build up I suggest to bite the bullet and get some new tape.
And I dont mean something off of ebay that says its new or near new used.
I know 70 bucks for a reel of 1/2 inch is a bit high but its worth getting some new tape for the 38.

[cjacek]

I agree. Get some new tape, as in currently made RMGI SM911 and toss the SS tape. Do keep the aluminum reels as take ups and to mount the SM911 pancakes. That'll save you money right there.

Also, for the future, get some proper cleaning supplies, like the cotton pad makeup removers, as trancedental already mentioned and also you should be using at least 90% isopropyl, again, as was mentioned. Clean in the direction of the tracks and not across them. Prior to using new tape, clean again using the fore mentioned methods, to make sure it's done right.

Baking is usually done to recover precious recordings but other than that....

--

[Sonarcade]

ok. This is a case where the path of least resistance becomes the wisest one. The food dehydrator may do a bit to lengthen the longevity (if we can even call it that at this point in these tapes' lives) of my tapes, but after reading all these responses, it seems as if one reel of fresh tape can last me pass upon pass for a good while until I decide that I'm going to record something for serious.

Thanks for all this advice, you guys.

cjacek - would you happen to know where to get pancakes for at a reasonable price? I bought my take up reel from tapetape as it's a 15 minute bike ride away from me, but from the sound of it in some of the threads I've read here, Bill from tapetape isn't everyone's favorite guy in these parts.

Goodbye 94 >= ampex 406 reels!

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by Sonarcade

it seems as if one reel of fresh tape can last me pass upon pass for a good while

Yes, you can produce many, many songs, entire albums on just 1 tape, if you don't mind recording over your master tracks.

cjacek - would you happen to know where to get pancakes for at a reasonable price?

OK, I just did a random check, by clicking on one of the states, here:
http://www.rmgi-usa.com/dealers.html

..and was able to find a really good deal on 1/2" 456 pancake:
http://www.totalmedia.com/store/audi...-last-179.html

Again, there's also a ton of RMGI / tape dealers, which may also have good closing deals on Quantegy and I'd use that 'dealer' map above to get a good list of those online stores.

--

[cjacek]

Sonarcade: post some new photos of the cleaned tape path.

[A Reel Person]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Yes, you can produce many, many songs, entire albums on just 1 tape, if you don't mind recording over your master tracks.

See, I could never do that. I archive e'thing! I have master tapes from the early 80s!

Originally Posted by cjacek

http://www.totalmedia.com/store/audi...-last-179.html--

I've bought a ton of cassettes from Total Media. Hundreds. I recommend them highly.

[cjacek]

Sonarcade: I'd also suggest you clean the pinch roller properly or replace it as it surely has a lot of sticky shed on there too, not to mention the rubber going bad due to age. It will negatively impact your sound if you don't take care of it. You should also clean the capstan shaft - making sure not to drip alcohol into the motor further down.

Also, with regard to keeping the aluminum reels to mount pancakes, make sure you also keep the screws. Just unscrew the hub from the flanges and toss it along with the tape. Now when you use pancakes, just place the flanges on the pancake and fasten the screws to the hub.

---

[Sonarcade]

man, what a super awesome deal! Thanks for the link and confirmation of this place as a legit dealer, guys! I don't think I could ever be an archiver for lack of funds and space. Come to think of it, I do have like 20 cassette tapes of bits of material scattered about. This is the stuff of insanity, I think, since I always say I'd come back to these to finish them only to find myself lacking the energy or whatever else to do so.

But I digress. I'm on that pancake right now and I'm excited about getting a proper start with this newly acquired Tascam 38. Also, what's one way to gauge the state of one's pinch roller? It looks OK for now although when I tried cleaning it with my 70% isopropyl alcohol, I just saw a bunch of black coming off, which I figured to be a natural shedding process of the rubber itself. It also was a bit sticky. But I see bad rubber conventionally as drying and cracking. But perhaps this is not the way to approach one's pinch roller. This is why I'm the one asking the questions here. =)

And below's the "after"-picture. Man, that "before"-picture looks like an eyesore now. No wonder I could only hear what was recorded by the previous owner on track 1 during playback and none of what I tried to record over it!

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by Sonarcade

I used some cheap isopropyl alcohol on some napkins and elbow grease and got that off and once that happened, I started hearing my recordings again! I hope that rubbing against the heads as firmly as I did didn't lead to anything permanent. I feel that the Tascam 38 is built like a tank but still needs to be handled in as delicate of a manner as possible -- which is hard for a bull in a china shop like myself.

It's funny that now that sticky shed thread that's...ahem...stickied makes so much sense to me. I'm hoping for either a cool bulk pancake sale on ebay for NOS tape like the one you posted, trancedental, or find a way to minimize the shedding so I don't have to scrub away at those heads every pass.

Never use anything other than cotton or foam swabs to clean heads. Napkins, paper towels, tissue, are much too abrasive. Clean your entire tape path before each session at a minimum regardless of how new the tape is.

[Sonarcade]

thanks. I just thought that the make-up removing pads were advised though not really necessary. I just hope that I didn't cause any damage to the heads when using napkins. The sound sounds fine but I'm not sure if I'd be the right person to be the judge of that. And maybe if the condition of the heads isn't related to the sound quality, and just whether the tape registers or not, then I'm in the clear and got lucky this time.

So is the concentration of the alcohol also something to consider seriously?

btw, I have a tune that I recorded to check the sound quality of this thing.

[A Reel Person]

That's pretty good songwriting. I'm impressed. It sounds like mid-60's David Bowie stuff, (pre-Ziggy).

The sound quality is good. I detect maybe only 3 tracks. I can't tell what the main instrument is,... maybe a muted piano patch or classical guitar?

The 38 side of it sounds fine. I think you could push the db up on the enitre mix when dubbing to the soundcard. However, if you put another 5 tracks on this one it should fill out the sound a lot. Nothing's wrong with stripped sounding music, as is. The thing that struck me most is the mixdown could be louder as it's dubbed to the 'puter.

As with any system, analog or digital, you have to size up and get used to exactly how hard you can push the inputs on the soundcard to get max volume before distortion.

Aye!

[Sonarcade]

thanks for the mixing advice! I'm kind of glad that you bring this point up without my asking if the volume's too low. I was thinking that I was crazy or something. This has actually been my biggest issue. I first attributed this low volume to crappy equipment lacking the proper headroom but then there's someone in here who recorded a song that sounds pretty hot and was recorded in his mic input on his laptop! So I'm having doubts about the problems coming from limitations of my equipment and I feel as if it's now placed squarely on my technique.

When working digitally, using Ableton Live or any other DAWish program, I immediately head for the compressor, add it to the master track and adjust the ratio so the meters are about at -0.3 dB. I don't know if that's enough information, seeing as how I recall running into different units of dB, but I figure that there's some standardized unit that applies across DAW programs. Even then, however, the graphic EQ on winamp when playing back tracks seems to be on a lowish end, especially with higher frequencies. And of course, more imporantly than "seeing" it is the fact that it sounds pretty low. Although I'm some of this may be tied to a flattening of the dynamics from compression, I think there's something else more crucial afoot.

you can see why I looked to the analog realm to solve these problems as I was firmly convinced that it's all digital's fault and that analog allows for things to simply work out out-of-the-box. But then, I realize that somewhere in my recording path, it's inevitable that I'm going to have to hit those A/D converters if I want to distribute my music in an unwieldy and 21st century manner. So I'm back at square one.

*shakes fist*

[A Reel Person]

I think at the outset I'd want to record to the 38 while hitting "0VU" as consistently as possible. +3 peaks are okay, for sure.

When mixing down to 'puter,... assuming you're mixing off the 38 thru "a hardware mixer" (such as the M30) down to stereo,... I'd take the mixdown signal and connect in stereo to "the input" (sound card or interface stereo line in), and push levels up to the red without undue clipping, that is to say not slamming the top. Just pinging the top of the red meters on DAW software is often what I find as good levels. The simulated VU meters are so fast registering the dynamic peaks it seems like you can hit the top just a hair and get away with it. I like the WMP "scope" visual, which is an oscilloscope trace that reveals square tops on waves from clipping, as well as visual cues about amplitude and high frequency content. Your test mix was rather low in amplitude, being visualized as very small and tame looking waves. I have recordings, f/i, which push the wave peaks much higher on the scale,... point being that I'd consider that a function of pushing the master mix buss up toward "0VU" in more or less analog fashion,... just tickling the peaks e'ry now & then.

I also feel the most obvious problem in your case is feeling compelled to put compression on the mix bus. I'm not on board with that. I recommend mixing in analog down to your ol'puter in stereo with zero crap on the mix bus, i.e., in an effort to capitalize on the entire dynamic range of the digital domain.

I get my best sounding mixdown in the analog realm then slam the mix bus as hot and dynamically as I dare, just short of squaretops on wave peaks. Get yourself off efx, which most people use like crack.

The 38 is quite dynamic, if you'll let it be.

You heard it here first.

[Sonarcade]

Unfortunately, the VU meters don't seem to respond while either recording and playing back so I've just been hitting them as hard as the preamps allow me to without clipping. I've definitely been cutting down on effects as much as possible, especially seeing as how I realize how much I've ironically been using effects to emulate the "natural" sounds of the Tascam 38.

As for keeping the mixdown track clean during the dubbing process, I'm not too sure if we're talking about the same thing. Just so I know we're on the same page, I was talking about adding compression to the mixdown track in Ableton Live after it had already been dubbed from the 38. Perhaps this is also something you're not on board with either -- which I can understand. But I think I've developed this technique as a way to remedy my low-level-problem. Perhaps it then boils down to simply manually working with the levels or even automating the level changes so that the peak is tickled, as you state (fyi I'm stealing that phrase when referring to optimal level readings from now on).

Also, what does "f/i" mean?

[sweetbeats]

f/I means for instance.

If your pinch roller was at all sticky when you were cleaning it, you must get a new one. Get it direct from Tascam. That is actually the cjeapest route for new.

Use 91% or higher isopropyl alcohol that is anhydrous (has no water in it...look at the ingredients to be sure).

Make sure you 'normalize' your master .wav file.

What are you using in your signal path on the way to tape?

[A Reel Person]

Yeah. I think the 38 can handle avg levels to "0" and peaks to "+3" without a problem. It's a little harder to gauge how the soundcard input levels should run, but I try (again) to hit it about "0" and just "tickling" the peaks a little bit is okay. I generally don't use any limiting or efx, on the master buss especially, with exception of a guitar track with distortion-box or run-of-the-mill thing like that. F/I, my sound is a little more stripped, natural and direct than anything else. I like to push the dynamics of the digital mixdown medium, soundcard or interface should give you about 100db raw amplitude on the input, and that's good. Low levels are typically not my problem, but for a low track or two I just push up the fader. If the entire mix is low, then to ride the gain up higher. YMMV