Do you want Quantegy 456 ?

[cjacek]

As you probably know, having visited http://www.quantegy.com/ recently, "plans are being formulated for the revival of Quantegy 499 Gold Studio Mastering and GP9 Platinum Studio Mastering audio products".

This is nice and all but seems catered mostly to higher end studio machines capable of running these ultra hot tapes. Most of our home studio machines, on the other hand, the TEAC, TASCAM, OTARI and FOSTEX recorders, are simply not able to even bias up to the fore mentioned tapes, including being physically harder to pull, needlessly stressing the tape path and motors.

Additionally, being more stiff, the 499 / GP9 place undue wear on the heads and provide a less than ideal frequency response, as the result of a less than ideal tape wrap over the heads. Our machines were originally built around 456 specs and its variants, the 406, 457, 407.

I already sent Quantegy a note about this but I thought it'd be more powerful if everyone who reads this post, emails them, with an option to call. In fact, here's a couple of contacts:

Mr. Peter Hutt at (770) 335-6910
E-mail: peter@quantegy.com
or
Mr. Jahret Sylvester at (678) 967-4713
E-mail: jahret@quantegy.com

We can get the tapes back if we do this together and, additionally, as a result of the competition, tape prices will surely come down.

Quantegy needs to be aware of the relatively large share of the market, the typical home recordist, that it is not targeting and it needs to, if it hopes to stay afloat.

Here's hoping for a nice flood of emails and calls...

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[RRuskin]

The original manufacturing equipment has been dismantled and is who-knows-where at this point in time. For this and other reasons, it's my understanding that anything sold under the Quantegy label will be marketed but not made by them. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is yet to be determined.

[sweetbeats]

Done.

Sent emails to both:

"Good morning!

I am part of a very active and devoted community of home-based semi-pro analog recording enthusiasts. There has been much abuzz lately about the potential resurgence of Quantegy on the open-reel analog media market. Since Quantegy's departure from the market, media prices have more than doubled, and we have been left no option but to endure some early quality control issues with RMGI (though those seem to be well under control for some time now), and our sector of the market would love to have choices in our media.

The problem that brings me to write today is that our understanding is that the potential reissue of Quantegy open-reel media will include only 499/GP9 +9 tape. This is distressing as most of us in this market sector maintain and operate tape decks manufactured around the +6 tape spec, and many in the +3 spec as well. There are a lot of us, and frankly, if true, we are disappointed at the lack of attention to the +3 and +6 market. So many machines in operation today simply cannot take advantage of the super-high +9 output tapes, which means our only choice remains in offerings from RMGI (as you know, ATR Magnetics tape is rated higher than +9 output). Would you please consider the reissue of the 406/407 and 456/457 lines? Running 499/GP9 on a machine designed for the +3 or +6 output and the thinner more flexible stock of the 406/407 and 456/457 lines is something of an abomination; abusive to the tape paths due to the thicker stock, and our ears as a result of unavoidable under-biasing.

Thank you for your consideration. There is room in the market for more than one manufacturer!"

Plagarize at will if it be helpful.

Thanks for putting the info up, Daniel!

[cjacek]

Thanks! Good letter, Cory!

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[Sonice Surgeon]

Sent emails as well.

[cjacek]

Great, thanks!

[dualflip]

I use Quantegy GP9, and the bias on my machine is calibrated to use that kind of tape, i mean i could use 456, but the tech asked me when he was callibrating "what do you use" i said GP9, and he set the parameters for it...

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by dualflip

I use Quantegy GP9, and the bias on my machine is calibrated to use that kind of tape

What exact machine are you talking about?

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[dualflip]

I have a Technics 2 track 1500, btw if you want i could scan the plotted freq. response the tech gave me when he serviced it...

[hungovermorning]

I've got 5 reels of brand new 1/4" Quantegy 456 that I bought at the end that I'd be willing to ship to a fellow analogger if anyone is hurting for the stuff. I use only 457 on my 22-4 and 22-2. PM me if you're interested. If any one wants all 5 I was thinking $70 shipped priority mail or a trade for other goofy stuff I don't need.

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by dualflip

I have a Technics 2 track 1500

I'm not familiar with that deck but I sure am surprised that it could fully bias up to that tape. I wonder what the tech did exactly and to what extent or perhaps the deck was modded or it is just an exceptional recorder? Interesting.

--

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by cjacek

I'm not familiar with that deck but I sure am surprised that it could fully bias up to that tape. I wonder what the tech did exactly and to what extent or perhaps the deck was modded or it is just an exceptional recorder? Interesting.

--

Yes, i have no idea what he did, though he has frequency responce plotters and all kinds of freaky stuff, he's actually the service manager of Sony/BMG Music Studios here in mexico. My tape recorder was serviced there.., ill try to scan the freq. responce of it.. its almost flat.. variations are less than half dB. I do think its an exceptional recorder, btw the tech told me that the tape deck was awesome and in great shape

[dualflip]

Ok Here it is, first some explaining, the green graph is left channel, the blue one is right channel, used 499 Ampex tape for calibration, on a Technics 1500 2 Track 1/4'' tape deck at 15 ips. One little square represents 0.5 db, so we can see in the left channel a half db bump in the lows, a half db dip on the low mids, and 1 db bump on the high mids. The right channel, has a 1 db bump on the lows, again half db dip on the mid lows and a half db bump on the high mids. both channels with respective roll offs at about 30-35 Hz. and 16 - 17KHz.
Click on the thumbnail for bigger pic

[sweetbeats]

Daniel, the Technics RS-1500 is actually a really cool deck...

Closed-loop dual-capstan tape path.



Dunno if it will bias up to +9 tape or not, but it has a following...

http://www.tapeproject.com/machines/machines.htm

Manual here.

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by sweetbeats

Daniel, the Technics RS-1500 is actually a really cool deck...

Closed-loop dual-capstan tape path.



Dunno if it will bias up to +9 tape or not, but it has a following...

http://www.tapeproject.com/machines/machines.htm

Manual here.

WOW thats nice!!! thanks for the links man, ill read them more carefully later on... i was looking for a remote unit... I really appreciate it man you made my day

[RRuskin]

[QUOTE=sweetbeats;3006366

Dunno if it will bias up to +9 tape or not, but it has a following...

[/QUOTE]

+9 isn't a bias value. It's an overall operating level number. I don't recall any tape with that high an over-bias spec. Bias is usually set +3 to +4.5 @ 10khz (some machines use 15khz), depending on tape type and sonic qualities desired. (More over-bias requires more hi-freq record eq, resulting in lower noise but less headroom. Less over-bias requires less hi-freq record eq, resulting in more headroom but higher noise floor.) A bias setting of +9 would probably require more record eq than could be delivered by the electronics and/or audibly distort at relatively low record levels.

One last point - just because a tape is capable to +9 doesn't mean you have to run it that hot. Headroom is a beautiful thing.

[sweetbeats]

Rick,

Yes. Just to clarify, I stated 'bias up to +9 tape', not 'bias up to +9' period. I am aware of the difference between operating level and headroom, but thanks for drawing attention to it as it is often a point of confusion.

The issue with biasing 'super-high output' tape is that because of the heavier oxide layer it requires more energy to be excited by the bias signal, and frankly most consumer and prosumer decks (and even decks considered 'pro') do not have the bias amplification circuitry on board to properly bias the tape. This is true of many Tascam decks...30, 40, 50-series decks, MS-16 etc. are all in this boat as well as many others per Tascam. Doesn't mean you can't run +9 tape, just means you may reach the threshhold of the bias amp circuitry attempting to bias the tape to spec...

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by sweetbeats

Rick,

Yes. Just to clarify, I stated 'bias up to +9 tape', not 'bias up to +9' period. I am aware of the difference between operating level and headroom, but thanks for drawing attention to it as it is often a point of confusion.

The issue with biasing 'super-high output' tape is that because of the heavier oxide layer it requires more energy to be excited by the bias signal, and frankly most consumer and prosumer decks (and even decks considered 'pro') do not have the bias amplification circuitry on board to properly bias the tape. This is true of many Tascam decks...30, 40, 50-series decks, MS-16 etc. are all in this boat as well as many others per Tascam. Doesn't mean you can't run +9 tape, just means you may reach the threshhold of the bias amp circuitry attempting to bias the tape to spec...

I vaguely recall someone @ Tascam telling me that their decks could provede enough bias for and obtain excellent results with super-high output tapes if elevated set-up levels weren't used. I know that both my Fostex E-16 and my Tascam 25-2 worked great with 499 and 3M 996 (my favorite) using the respective machine's recommended operating level rather than that of the tapes.

Sadly, Quantegy/Ampex products turned to shit long before going belly-up and 3M no longer makes magnetic media of any kind.

[trancedental]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

I know that both my Fostex E-16 and my Tascam 25-2 worked great with 499 and 3M 996 (my favorite) using the respective machine's recommended operating level rather than that of the tapes.

Sadly, Quantegy/Ampex products turned to shit long before going belly-up .

I actually prefered the sound of 499 pn my E-16 over 456 as it seemed to be clearer with more headroom, and more dynamic with less hiss.

I only stopped using it when my tech said that it would wear the heads out quicker! Replacement Fostex heads are rare!

Agree about Ampex / Quantegy though they were responsible for their own downfall through their own sloppy mistakes IMO.

They might be better off rebranding any new products they make anyway!!!!!!!!

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by trancedental

I actually prefered the sound of 499 pn my E-16 over 456 as it seemed to be clearer with more headroom, and more dynamic with less hiss.

I only stopped using it when my tech said that it would wear the heads out quicker! Replacement Fostex heads are rare!

The 1st time I heard this myth was on this forum. 499 maybe stiffer than 456 but not any more abrasive.

[ethyrvalve]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

The 1st time I heard this myth was on this forum. 499 maybe stiffer than 456 but not any more abrasive.

Wow, are you sure about that? I really hope that's true. I use high output tape exclusively, but I always harboured some guilt over the belief I'd be wearing out my heads faster.
FWIW I've been using mostly RMG SM900 (plus one reel of ATR) on my Tascam 58 at a +6 operating level for a while now with no problems whatsoever. I was able to get it bias correctly.
For my MS-16 I replaced the bias feeder capacitors (a very quick and easy job) and I've been able to get ample bias to operate ATR tape at +9 levels. (I didn't actually try biasing it before the mod, perhaps it would have worked fine, I got antsy waiting for the tape to show up in the mail).
BTW after using a couple reels of ATR I can say I like it every bit as much as the old 3M996. I'm really rooting for these guys to thrive. They make a superb product.

That said, good luck in your 456 petition all you folks who prefer it!

[sweetbeats]

Pete, the wear issue has bounced around many areas, and can be verified. I talked about this issue with Jim Finch at Tascam. The +9 tape isn't more "abrasive" per se, but it is the stiffness that is the issue. Think of it this way: if you tried to drag tape that was as stiff is a piece of wood over a headstack, that would be harder on the head contour as it tries to make that bend. +9 tape is not as stiff as a piece of wood , but it is stiffer. Big picture? 456 is gonna wear the heads...499 is gonna wear the heads...dental floss is gonna wear the heads. The question is "how much faster?" I have no idea, but my guess is that it is not something to freak about, and may be insignificant y'know? You are running +9 tape because you like how it sounds...it isn't a physical issue with your tape path, its an artistic issue and I fully support that. Maybe in the big picture, over a long period of time you'd get 50 more hours out of your heads with 456? Maybe 10? Maybe 100? I have no idea, but you're not running sandpaper through the path so right there you're off to a good start.

I am absolutely no expert on the issue, but I wouldn't worry about it. I'm using 456 equivalent tape simply because it is what my decks were designed around and my experience is far too limited to be deviating from the status quo for my decks at this stage. At some point if I feel something is missing or limited in the sounds I am getting off tape and I have exhausted my research and knowledge-base to address the gap in other ways, and then I roll +9 tape and the lights turn on, at that point I'm not gonna care about nominal accelerated wear...I'm gonna send one of my spare sets of heads to JFR and have them on the shelf ready to drop in when that +9 tape does exactly what the +6 tape would do eventually anyway and wear the heads out.

[cjacek]

OK, so I just received an email reply from Peter Hutt of Quantegy. Here a copy:

From: Peter Hutt <peter@quantegy.com>
Subject: Re: Quantegy tape revival
To: xxxxxx@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 11:09 AM

Respectfully,

456 was less than 10% of all audio tape made by us in the last years. It may not be economical for us to carry all the products we previously made. Please keep checking back. We think 456 will be available before anything else too.

Peter Hutt.

[cjacek]

HA! Ain't it something that when I posted a copy of Peter's email, about the potential 456 release, that there were 456 'views' for this thread!

An OMEN perhaps??

[sweetbeats]

So basically he is saying "not at this time" but the 456 line is next up if they keep going?