How do I convince my drummer to learn a good rimshot technique?

[mrhotapples]

My band's drummer is weird. He's got good hands and he hits hard, but he never rimshots unless it's during a roll. His snare sounds choked and lifeless, no matter what, and I'm sure it's a combination of him tightening the stand too much and not rimshotting.

He says that if he does rimshots, he'll tear sticks up like crazy, but that's cool, we can buy more sticks. How should I go about convincing him that he'll sound a lot better if he'll play his snare different? We play a lot of aggressive stuff and he tunes his snare really tight, it sounds awful without rim to me.

[NegadivOne]

I never really understood drummers who rimshot every hit. If the drum sounds choked, try different heads, tunings, loosening the snares, etc. before convincing him to change his drumming style and doing rimshots.

[Simman]

Originally Posted by NegadivOne

I never really understood drummers who rimshot every hit. If the drum sounds choked, try different heads, tunings, loosening the snares, etc. before convincing him to change his drumming style and doing rimshots.

Absolutely Agree!! If the drum(s) sounds like crap, it'll just sound like crap with a rimshot. Fix the sound of the drum by doing any number of the things NegadivOne pointed out.

If you still can't convience the drummer their drums sound like crap, fire him/her and get another drummer (with good sounding drums )

[mrhotapples]

We've already gone through five different snares, different tunings and heads from different manufacturers, it's a stylistic thing for the most part. The drums all sound fine, although like I said, a bit choked. If you can find me a professional drummer playing punk or metal that doesn't rimshot everything unless he's playing a roll, I'll let you scalp me.

I'm definitely not thinking of having him play loud rimshots over quiet sections or anything.

[Simman]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

We've already gone through five different snares, different tunings and heads from different manufacturers, it's a stylistic thing for the most part. The drums all sound fine, although like I said, a bit choked. If you can find me a professional drummer playing punk or metal that doesn't rimshot everything unless he's playing a roll, I'll let you scalp me.

I'm definitely not thinking of having him play loud rimshots over quiet sections or anything.

If someone else hits the drum does it sound ok? Five sanre drums; any of the metal? He might just be choking off the drum by resting the stick (albeit with some pressure) on the head.

[mrhotapples]

If I play them, they sound great, and I'm no drummer, but my drum-god friend in another band from FL has played his kit too, it sounds good. It's not a case of the drums being crap or him resting the stick on the head or playing terribly inconsistently, I know he needs to lighten up on his tight he make his stand and that it's hurting the sound of the snare, but... He's on his second kit now, the first was a Forum, this one is an Export. We've used a Tama Stewart Copeland signature, a Pork Pie 10 inch piccolo and a DW 14 inch along with the snares from the Pearl kits. If he were a bad drummer, I'd quit the band over this, but it's come to my attention as I try to find ways to make us sound better.

This is our myspace with demos, listen to Red Cars on Sunday Afternoons.
http://www.myspace.com/shiphighintransitfl

I'd much prefer our drums sound like this (I'm not a huge fan of Blink 182 but Travis Barker's his favorite drummer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCjbphQH2iE

If he's not rimshotting, I want to know how to make a snare sound like that.

[PhilGood]

The drum sounds choked probably because you're out in front of it, where it doesn't cut through. It probably sounds just fine to him, because he's sitting back there. Rimshotting might fix that (and I've said before that most pros I know, like Dave Weckl etc. rimshot snare hits. I've watched from just behind the kit, so I know it's very common.) but you could try micing the snare during practice/performance. That would tell you how the drum itself sounds.

[mrhotapples]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

The drum sounds choked probably because you're out in front of it, where it doesn't cut through. It probably sounds just fine to him, because he's sitting back there. Rimshotting might fix that (and I've said before that most pros I know, like Dave Weckl etc. rimshot snare hits. I've watched from just behind the kit, so I know it's very common.) but you could try micing the snare during practice/performance. That would tell you how the drum itself sounds.

We play out four times a week and record every month or so. It's gotta be something he's doing : (

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

If he's not rimshotting, I want to know how to make a snare sound like that.

Compression.

And Travis rimshots.

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

We play out four times a week and record every month or so. It's gotta be something he's doing : (

Yeah I can hear from the first track that it's all how he hits the drum. It sounds fine during the tom parts because he's whacking the hell out of it, but the minute he crosses arms to the hi hat he starts pansying the snare. He needs to HIT the F'ing thing!

[tmix]

He can raise his snare up in height a little to the point it sort of forces a rim shot on anything but a timid stroke.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

If you can find me a professional drummer playing punk or metal that doesn't rimshot everything unless he's playing a roll, I'll let you scalp me.

Marky Ramone.....and me.

A rimshot on every whack is retarded. It's unnecessary. It's your drummers technique or the snare set up.

[RAMI]

Him not doing rimshots is not the problem. While rimshots are cool and sound good, nobody DEPENDS on them to get a good snare sound. The problem is somewhere else. He either just doesn't hit his snare hard enough....or something.

[benage]

I think the problem could be he's not hitting it hard enough, if that can't be fixed the few things I can think of you could do in the mix to help get a more powerfull sound would be:

squash the hell out of it with a limiter.

Add a boost at 6khz for more of a crack to the sound.

Add some overdrive.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by benage

I think the problem could be he's not hitting it hard enough, if that can't be fixed the few things I can think of you could do in the mix to help get a more powerfull sound would be:

squash the hell out of it with a limiter.

Add a boost at 6khz for more of a crack to the sound.

Add some overdrive.

Lol. Bad advice dude.

[stevieb]

After reading about half the post, I realized that the OP is asking for ways to change his drummer's specific behavior, but almost all the responses I read are addressing equpiment. Two observations:

Not to state the obvious, but behavior and equipment are very different things. IMHO, comments should address behavior. I am a bit suprised that many here, who would be quick to point out that bad technique, be it guitar, recording, bass, etc. can not be cured by any amount of equipment. These posters are trying to reach so deep into their equipment bag of tricks that they are punching a hole in the bag's bottom.

Changing someone's behavior is very difficult. Frankly, given all the circumstances of the situation, I don't think you will suceed- if your drummer won't effect the change, it won't happen. If I could offer any advise (given from a B-Mod position) I'd say, have a good talk with him (one-on-one), tell him what you NEED- ask him to make the change, but make it clear that you/your band NEED him to make this change.

And have a back-up drummer waiting in the wings- I'd give you a 90% probability you will be needing a new drummer that afternoon.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by stevieb

After reading about half the post, I realized that the OP is asking for ways to change his drummer's specific behavior, but almost all the responses I read are addressing equpiment.

Really? You sure we're reading the same thread????

Originally Posted by tmix

He can raise his snare up in height a little to the point it sort of forces a rim shot on anything but a timid stroke.

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Yeah I can hear from the first track that it's all how he hits the drum.

Originally Posted by Simman

He might just be choking off the drum by resting the stick

Originally Posted by Greg_L

It's your drummers technique .

Originally Posted by RAMI

He either just doesn't hit his snare hard enough....or something.

Originally Posted by benage

I think the problem could be he's not hitting it hard enough,

Originally Posted by simman

fire him

[benage]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

Lol. Bad advice dude.

are you saying those things would not create a powerfull sound?
I know ideally it would be better for him to get the drumming right, but if he cannot get a better sound from his drummer I've found these things can help.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by benage

are you saying those things would not create a powerfull sound?
I know ideally it would be better for him to get the drumming right, but if he cannot get a better sound from his drummer I've found these things can help.

I've found that trying to fix bad drumming in the mix makes it sound worse. Go ahead and EQ and compress the snot of the drums tracks so the weak snare hits sound better. What do you think the other snare hits will sound like? Or are you gonna go way in and process each snare hit individually? Good luck with that.

You know what creates a powerful drum sound? Hitting the drums hard and cleanly.

[benage]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

I've found that trying to fix bad drumming in the mix makes it sound worse. Go ahead and EQ and compress the snot of the drums tracks so the weak snare hits sound better. What do you think the other snare hits will sound like? Or are you gonna go way in and process each snare hit individually? Good luck with that.

You know what creates a powerful drum sound? Hitting the drums hard and cleanly.

O.K. I hold my hands up! I've only really used these techniques on snare samples to give them a bit more oomph or crack, with live recorded drums I'm sure your right about the problems you've encountered.

[NewAgeMuttLange]

trigger it........

[Supercreep]

Get a new drummer.


I think non-rimshot snare hits sound wimpy too.

[Simman]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Really? You sure we're reading the same thread????

I kinda liked the one when I said fire the guy .

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Simman

I kinda liked the one when I said fire the guy .

OK, I added it.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

If I play them, they sound great, and I'm no drummer, but my drum-god friend in another band from FL has played his kit too, it sounds good. It's not a case of the drums being crap or him resting the stick on the head or playing terribly inconsistently, I know he needs to lighten up on his tight he make his stand and that it's hurting the sound of the snare, but... He's on his second kit now, the first was a Forum, this one is an Export. We've used a Tama Stewart Copeland signature, a Pork Pie 10 inch piccolo and a DW 14 inch along with the snares from the Pearl kits. If he were a bad drummer, I'd quit the band over this, but it's come to my attention as I try to find ways to make us sound better.

This is our myspace with demos, listen to Red Cars on Sunday Afternoons.
http://www.myspace.com/shiphighintransitfl

I'd much prefer our drums sound like this (I'm not a huge fan of Blink 182 but Travis Barker's his favorite drummer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCjbphQH2iE

If he's not rimshotting, I want to know how to make a snare sound like that.

I much prefer your drummers snare sound to travis. It's a horrible sounding snare imo. Your drummer's snare doesn't cut through enough and travis' certainly does, but that doesn't make it better sounding.

If he hits the snare like a wimp when playing hihat, get him to move the hihat over closer to the 1st tom, and not cross his hands(or not as much anyway) so he has more room to lift his hand and hit harder.

It doesn't sound like your getting much of a crack though. Maybe mic the bottom of the snare too, try different heads, and snares(or different snare settings).

You shouldn't need to rimshot every hit. Rimshot should be for the occasional accent.