Help with mixing drums

[chamelious]

Hi,

Its my first time mixing drums that were well recorded, we had 10 mics on my brothers kit, Audix D6 in the kick, D4 on the snare, yamaha sub kick on the kick, NT5's spaced overheads, Audix's close miking the toms and a couple of room mics, not sure what they were.

Here's what they sound like panned but not processed:
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=14042

And here's my attempt at EQ/comp/Gating:
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=14043

Can a more experienced ear hear where im going wrong? They're sounding quite small.

[Farview]

Depending on the sound you are going for...

I would add some 5k to the kick and toms, if not just a bunch of shelf at 8k.

Suck out somewhere between 400 and 800hz out of the kicks and toms.

Remember, the subkick is supposed to supplement the main kick mic, it shouldn't dominate it.

See where you are at, maybe add some lows.

The snare just needs to be a little brighter.

It sounds like the room mics are up too loud in comparison to the close mics

[WhiteStrat]

Your raw mix sounds bigger (& better) than the "processed" file. Maybe your adding too much processing because "it's what you do" to a drum kit, or even what you've read here.

I'd step back to your raw mix, eq the individual drums that need it (snare, some; the kick sounds pretty good to me!, etc.) Get your volume levels close, (like Farview said, the OHs might be to loud relative to the individual drum mics) and then not sweat anything else across all the drum tracks until you get some other instruments in the mix.

I think you've got a solid foundation here--just don't jump the gun on what you think it needs until you start building the songs around it.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

Your raw mix sounds bigger (& better) than the "processed" file.

Absolutely.

It sounds like the kik, snare and overheads were recorded in 3 separate rooms. There may be major phase problems happening with the 10 mics. That's a lot of mics for any kit. I'd strip it down to 4 mics (kik, snare and overheads). I bet it would sound way better. From there, if you still feel a need to use all your mics, bring them in one at a time and see when it starts to fall apart.

[soldierone]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

Your raw mix sounds bigger (& better) than the "processed" file...

I think you've got a solid foundation here--just don't jump the gun on what you think it needs until you start building the songs around it.

That's pretty much what I was thinking when I listened to it. Things started sounding lost in the processed file, and I noticed that the snare didn't sound quite as good as it did from the start. You've got a great sound to start with, so don't over do it!

[Farview]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Absolutely.
That's a lot of mics for any kit.

Really? A normal 5 piece kit for me ends up at least 11 mics
1. kick inside
2. kick outside
3. snare top
4. snare bottom
5, 6, 7. toms 1, 2,and 3
8. Hat
9. ride
10 & 11 overheads

Add a tom, add a mic. If I need room mics, add those. If there is a second kick, add two more...

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Farview

Really? A normal 5 piece kit for me ends up at least 11 mics
1. kick inside
2. kick outside
3. snare top
4. snare bottom
5, 6, 7. toms 1, 2,and 3
8. Hat
9. ride
10 & 11 overheads

Add a tom, add a mic. If I need room mics, add those. If there is a second kick, add two more...

Great. I'm glad that works for you.

Did I say it was TOO MANY mics???

I said it's a lot of mics...and it is. Unless you know what you're doing and have experience recording drums, more is definitely not better in this case.

I'd be willing to bet he'd get a better, more balanced sound if he turned off the hi-hat, and whatever other "not neccassary" mics. (I'm not saying "un-necassary" mics, there's a difference. I just mean they're not neccassarilly neccassary )

[Farview]

Just trying to be funny, stand down. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Farview

Just trying to be funny, stand down. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Nah, I'm cool with funny. I attempt it often, and succeed rarely.

But, I thought your post made a legitimate point, so I didn't think you were joking around.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

What about the bell and the block? You need two on the bell, one inside and one outside. And the block needs three mics, one on the short side, one on the long side, and one to let you know how it sounds in the janitor's closet two doors down the hallway on the left. And don't even get me started if the guy is using riveted cymbals; miking each one of those rivets is a bitch.

I just thought; it's a good thing there's no drummer's union. If they discovered that every solid surface, curved or straight, inside or outside, is a separate instrument, they'd insist on hiring a separate drummer for every one of them.

Ten drummers in one room.....


*shudder*






G.

[chamelious]

Cheers guys, i have a bit more of a play before i read these and got them sounding a bit better. I'll post the mix as it currently stands for you all. Im not using all the 10 mics, one room mic is totally off and one is mixed very low. The sub kicks also hardly in there with a massive high cut on it. I played with the snare as it was giving me most problems, it still sounds a little harsh. Im reasonably happy with the rest of the kit sound now, but have a listen and tell me what you guys think.

Link: http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=14047

Thanks for all the help so far, im constantly changing stuff atm, but to my ears the mix is kinda starting to sound ok.

[RAMI]

Definitely sounds a lot better. Maybe putting it in a mix with other instruments helped, too.

What stands out most to me now is the hats need to be more present. (Don't worry, I am well aware of the irony in me telling you to turn up the hats after saying you might not need the hat mic )

It's getting there and sounds pretty good at this point.

I'm really digging the guitar in this, too.

[chamelious]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Definitely sounds a lot better. Maybe putting it in a mix with other instruments helped, too.

What stands out most to me now is the hats need to be more present. (Don't worry, I am well aware of the irony in me telling you to turn up the hats after saying you might not need the hat mic )

It's getting there and sounds pretty good at this point.

I'm really digging the guitar in this, too.

Thanks man. I'll have another go with fresh ears tomorrow and turn the overheads up a fraction.

Thanks for the compliment on the guitar- I'm reasonably pleased with the tone for what is a DI V-Amp solution. Im just a bit conscious that the mix still seems a bit empty, and i think tracking more electric guitars will muddy it up. Thinking of trying some clean/acoustic mixed low in the chorus for texture, and of course there vocals to go on there yet.

[rockerdude]

The kik sounds whoofy and the snare has no crack.I have a sub kik but never use it I also have the audix d6 and never use it.I like the sure beta 52 and the sennheiser 604 and 421 for toms and a sure sm 81 for the hats and akg c1000s for the O.H.