Change EQ mid-song much?

[HapiCmpur]

I'm wondering how common it is to change the EQ on an instrument during a song.

Right now I'm working on a ballad which starts off with just vocal and piano (an electronic keyboard set to imitate a grand). Drums and bass join in after a couple verses, and some synth strings come in a little later. Then it ends with a sudden decrescendo back to solo piano.

Originally, I rolled off a lot of the bass freqs on the piano because I figured they weren't adding much in the first place and that I should also leave room in the low end for the bass guitar. But now I'm thinking that I shouldn't roll off the low end of the piano until the bass guitar actually starts playing, and then put it back again when the song reverts to solo piano at the end.

The only reason I'm asking (instead of experimenting) is that it's a little difficult to automate EQ on/off on my system. If a lot of guys in the forum think it's a bad idea to change EQ mid-song, or at least for this particular application, that would save me a lot of time in the lab. I'd just leave the low end off of the piano throughout the song. Otherwise, I guess I'll have to put on the labcoat.

What's the verdict?

[jtees4]

It's not common...but the final sound is the only thing that can tell you if it's truly right or wrong. If it sounds good...it's good.

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

I'm wondering how common it is to change the EQ on an instrument during a song.

Right now I'm working on a ballad which starts off with just vocal and piano (an electronic keyboard set to imitate a grand). Drums and bass join in after a couple verses, and some synth strings come in a little later. Then it ends with a sudden decrescendo back to solo piano.

Originally, I rolled off a lot of the bass freqs on the piano because I figured they weren't adding much in the first place and that I should also leave room in the low end for the bass guitar. But now I'm thinking that I shouldn't roll off the low end of the piano until the bass guitar actually starts playing, and then put it back again when the song reverts to solo piano at the end.

The only reason I'm asking (instead of experimenting) is that it's a little difficult to automate EQ on/off on my system. If a lot of guys in the forum think it's a bad idea to change EQ mid-song, or at least for this particular application, that would save me a lot of time in the lab. I'd just leave the low end off of the piano throughout the song. Otherwise, I guess I'll have to put on the labcoat.

What's the verdict?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

What's the verdict?

Look at it this way: electric guitar players switch foot pedal settings in the middle of a song all the time. organ players ride their sliders regularly.

Why can't EQ be dynamic also? It can, and there's nothing wrong with it.

G.

[Massive Master]

I'd say it's as common as it is needed. Simple as that.

Let's put it another way -- "Way back when" it was very uncommon - as few consoles had recall (specifically, *full* recall including EQ), you pretty much made a "middle of the road" setting that worked well for the tune - unless you had a mix crew big enough to actually work the knobs at that point.

With the full recall automation built in to so many different mixing programs out there now, there's no reason NOT to automate it if it's needed.

[benage]

it's a trade off, If you leave the bottom of the piano in you'll have a fuller sounding start of the track but you'll lessen the impact when the bass finaly kicks in.

[loudsongs]

At least half the songs I mix have EQ changes somewhere in them. It's most common in the situation you mention, when an instrument is heard alone vs. in the mix. What's good in the mix often won't sound good alone. I do it a lot with the beater sound in a kick track, if there is a place where the kick is VERY exposed, I pull the beater click down with EQ.



Scott
Not an audio engineer.

[suprstar]

I havent, but only because I'm not familiar enough with the automation in Cubase, and I havent really needed to do it yet and/or the track sounds good enuf for my purposes. But I can think of several scenarios where it'd be very helpful. As said, theres a solo instrument, then the whol band kicks in. Or clean versus to dirty choruses, guitar solos, etc. I fully intend to produce an EP in the near future, and I will wanna make it as good as I possibly can, so I'll certainly be playing with eq changes midsong if I have the slightest reason to beleive it'll make the mix sound better.

[Elton Bear]

Originally Posted by loudsongs

At least half the songs I mix have EQ changes somewhere in them. It's most common in the situation you mention, when an instrument is heard alone vs. in the mix. What's good in the mix often won't sound good alone. I do it a lot with the beater sound in a kick track, if there is a place where the kick is VERY exposed, I pull the beater click down with EQ.

Scott
Not an audio engineer.

I'd do that. If I could get a decent drum sound in the first place (I blame my room, I can get a good sound in a real studio).

Look at it this way - if Automation wasn't supposed to be used, why would the programmers bother with the ability to do it?

[soldierone]

From the details you've posted, it doesn't sound like a terrible idea to at least try out. EQ is especially useful in making a space for all your instruments in a mix, so if it sounds better alone with the extra low end, then run with it. When your extra instruments come in, it might work to get some of those frequencies out of the way to make the mix sound clearer.

If you're having a tough time with trying to automate the whole thing, you might try duplicating the track, EQing them separately and then just cutting or muting them in the different sections as needed. It's a pretty simple way to do it, and it's also easy to see it visually on the screen.

[legionserial]

I do it from time to time with rhythm guitars where a solo starts and ends.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by benage

it's a trade off, If you leave the bottom of the piano in you'll have a fuller sounding start of the track but you'll lessen the impact when the bass finaly kicks in.

That's an excellent observation. As it is now, I really like the "drama" of the bass and drums coming in together after a couple verses of solo piano. I'd probably lose that effect if the piano is already filling in the low end from the start.

Originally Posted by soldierone

If you're having a tough time with trying to automate the whole thing, you might try duplicating the track, EQing them separately and then just cutting or muting them in the different sections as needed.

Great idea! For some reason, although it's easy on my recorder to automate fader moves and several other events, EQ changes can only be automated by linking them with entire scene changes. I don't want to make any new scenes now because they'll conflict with my current automation settings, and I've already spent a lot of time on those. But your suggestion solves that problem, and I just happen to have the spare tracks to do it.

Thanks to all who responded. I'm always impressed by the quality of responses I get in this forum.