attenduators

[daav]

Looking for all your thoughts on these, are they worth it?

After thinking about different amps for a while i think I am happy with my current one (Fender blues deluxe) but i need to push the tubes more for the happy tone i want, but i can't play at full volume all the time. Is this my best option?

Daav

[WhiteStrat]

You'll get as many opinions as there attenuators, but here's mine. I use a Weber Mass Lite--uses a speaker motor instead of heat dissipation to present a load to the amp. Supposedly leaves your sound more true than a hot plate style approach.

BUT (and their's always a BUT in life) I've never used another one, so I have nothing to compare it to. I love mine--I love the the fact that it's got 2 "halves" (high and low) so if I think it darkens the sound I can attenuate the highs less. Or the lows less--whatever is called for.

All in all, it let's me crank it, and I don't feel like there's anything between my amp and my sound.

[kojdogg]

yeah i have a weber micro mass and i love it. it's great for recording and low volume practice. i don't feel like it's sucking too much tone and the separate high/low knobs let you adjust the sound to suit what you're looking for.

[dean1964]

Attenuators are cool. But honestly, there is a lot more going on when you crank up an amp than just the tubes singing. The speakers are key to that sound in my opinion. We make music from sounds, and sounds we make are directly dependent on our ability to move air, and to control it.

Instead of using an attenuator, I would use some sort of modeling amp for my low volume / great tone needs. Maybe one of the things from Line 6, or perhaps, if you are short on cash, maybe the Behringer copy. Instead of just turning down the volume, they will model the cabinet sound, speaker sound, as well. There are also a variety of software plugins that will get the job done, but you will need a beast of a computer to run them and play in real time with acceptable latency times.

There is a difference between the modeled sound and the natural sound of Amp on 13, but the compromise seems to be more advantageous, to my ears anyway.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by dean1964

Attenuators are cool. But honestly, there is a lot more going on when you crank up an amp than just the tubes singing. The speakers are key to that sound in my opinion. We make music from sounds, and sounds we make are directly dependent on our ability to move air, and to control it.

Instead of using an attenuator, I would use some sort of modeling amp for my low volume / great tone needs. Maybe one of the things from Line 6, or perhaps, if you are short on cash, maybe the Behringer copy. Instead of just turning down the volume, they will model the cabinet sound, speaker sound, as well. There are also a variety of software plugins that will get the job done, but you will need a beast of a computer to run them and play in real time with acceptable latency times.

There is a difference between the modeled sound and the natural sound of Amp on 13, but the compromise seems to be more advantageous, to my ears anyway.

I completely agree with you that a cranked is more than just tubes. And an attenuator only gets the tubes part--not the speaker moving air part.

But with a modeler your modeling both--the tubes and the moving air. At least with an attenuator the soaked tubes are real. And yes, I've used modeling extensively--and for me there's no comparison. I'll take the tubes any day.

All this leads to another "compromise"--a real tube amp that's small enough to crank without an attenuator. That's a great way to record, too.

[kojdogg]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

I completely agree with you that a cranked is more than just tubes. And an attenuator only gets the tubes part--not the speaker moving air part.

But with a modeler your modeling both--the tubes and the moving air. At least with an attenuator the soaked tubes are real. And yes, I've used modeling extensively--and for me there's no comparison. I'll take the tubes any day.

All this leads to another "compromise"--a real tube amp that's small enough to crank without an attenuator. That's a great way to record, too.

+1 on all of that.
I'm using low watt amps-- a completely modded Epiphone Valve Junior head (5 watts) and a Jule modded Orange Tiny Terror (7 or 15 watts), but both are still too loud for general recording or practicing.
There are some tube amps though that go even lower (1-3 watts depending) Bumbox 1, Blackheart and others.

[Corndog]

My neighbors don't give a shit. He's a shitty drummer and she's a bartender...

[Tadpui]

Originally Posted by Corndog

He's a shitty drummer and she's a bartender...

I smell a sitcom!

I use a THD HotPlate and it was a total revolution for my 80-watt monster of a tube amp in my house. Much like one of the posters above, I have only used this 1 attenuator and I can't give it much of a comparison with its competitors. But after doing some pretty intense research, I arrived at the HotPlate as the best choice for my situation.

I think that you definitely keep 1 thing in mind with attenuators: while they are capable of taming even the loudest tube amp down to bedroom levels, you can't expect that severe level of attenuation to reproduce the true nature of your amp's sound. A more realistic expectation is to be able to shave off 4, 8, maybe even 12 decibels of output from your amp while still retaining your desired tone (or with minimal affect at least).

I do agree that an attenuator is your best option though. Which attenuator you chose is up to your needs and tastes.

[dean1964]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

At least with an attenuator the soaked tubes are real..

I'll buy that argument. What matters is that your ears are happy at the end of the day.

I never tried it, but what about this signal chain.

AMP -> Attenuator -> Modeling (set clean and open with preferred cab type) -> AD, and so on.

The best of both worlds, or completely insane? Its round about but remember, we are after a sound here, at neighborly levels, and not a means to an end.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by dean1964

I'll buy that argument. What matters is that your ears are happy at the end of the day.

I never tried it, but what about this signal chain.

AMP -> Attenuator -> Modeling (set clean and open with preferred cab type) -> AD, and so on.

The best of both worlds, or completely insane? Its round about but remember, we are after a sound here, at neighborly levels, and not a means to an end.

Agreed, but are we talking about a tube amp? If not, the attenuator doesn't gain you anything. If so, what does the modeller gain you?

[DrewPeterson7]

I'm a THD Hot Plate user too. It it perfectly transparent? Tough to say... Wth the "bright" and "deep" switches engaged, it sounds pretty natural even down to -16db attenuation. Is it perfect? Probably not, but does what saturation and compression and "coloring" you gain from the poweramp make up for any slight degradation in tone you get from using the thing? Most definitely. My Rectoverb with a Hot Plate on it sounds way better than it would without, with the master turned way down to compensate. I love mine.

I've heard plenty of goood things about the Webers, too, so those are definitely worth a look. I have heard lots of NOT so good things about the Marshall Powerbrake, so I'd pass on that one however.

[dean1964]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

Agreed, but are we talking about a tube amp? If not, the attenuator doesn't gain you anything. If so, what does the modeller gain you?

Yes, a tube amp. The modeler adding the cabinet simulation for the similar effect of air in motion.

[pohaku]

I use a HotPlate with my 30 watt EL84 tube amp (even though I can cut it to 15 watts with a switch) and it works pretty well. I also have a 64 Champ which is 3.5 watts (I think) and a Super Champ which is 18 watts. Between them, I can pretty much get the sounds I want. I think the Weber and the HotPlate are the 2 leading attenuators out there if you can't just work with a lo-watt amp.